The Asian countries are tending to use whatever is seen as 'modern' -- witness the recent fiasco with hastily-built high-speed lines in China. They'll follow the West's example if it looks good for them to do so. Secondly, using CIA and various underhanded means to foster strong environmental movements in those countries. Basically, apply all of the energy that we're applying to the Mideast to other countries.

I can't tell if this is a serious reply. Do you really believe that China will follow the Kyoto accords if they think it is "modern"?
Really?

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

No: China will develop solar capacity if it's seen as modern. And in fact, they are subsidizing solar while Europe and the US bicker like fishwives over subsidies. Sad.

OK, they see that developing solar is also in their own best self interest. I believe the perception of a thing being "modern" is less important that self-interest.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

I wasn't aware of that. I have a little trade thing going on in Nam and I can tell you they use whatever is cheapest. They would buy our tech (1 or 2 pieces) reverse engineer one of our pieces of technology as long as they can do it cheap even if it means they lose 50% of the efficiency. If they cannot afford it, they rather work without. They spend a lot of energy to bypass the middleman EVEN IF THEY GAIN NOTHING. We send stuff there to be packed BY HAND even if it take more time because it is more expensive to do it here by machine. We can't even afford to by machines there simply because it isn't as cost effective as getting a few grunts to load 55 pound bags 30 feet high with a couple of ladders and the grunts. So no, Asia is not "Monkey see, Monkey do" by a LONG shot.

Again why? Because it works so well? As I said, if you are an advocate for MMGW, fair enough. If it cannot make money, we can't afford it at this time. We can't even afford our basic stuff.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

If we cut out the genuine waste (excessive law enforcement, military adventures) we could afford more than you'd think. Especially if the subsidies were initially paid for by a tax on fossil fuels.

I'm an advocate AGAINST MMGW (the scientific position), and proud of it.

And if pigs fly.... Not happening. Why? Because too many advocates out there want this, that or the other of their pet projects satisfied. They don't care if the world falls apart as long as they get what they want, realistic or not. Again, only way to fix it is to have a wise benevolent dictator as a ruler. See first sentence of this paragraph as to when such an individual will come.

And that works so well because a tax like that won't get abused and will be spent for what it was intended. Tell me, what do YOU know of your state's "Tobacco Windfall" money? In many places it was squandered on stuff not related to the stated reason. SS fund? Passed around like a $2 hooker in a men's prison.

I don't think we know enough to be for or against yet. Certainly not enough to toss huge sums of money at an ATTEMPT solving a global size problem when we are kinda broke ourselves.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Who gives a f**k what it's used for? Fossil fuels more expensive = good, even if the money is merely set on fire and used to burn oil company execs at the stake on national TV.

This being said: I wouldn't mind a benevolent dictator.

Spoken like an advocate of a cause. In every way, like the kid that doesn't care what happens as long as he gets his candy. I doubt you'd care if we become a Rwanda II as long as we give you green energy. What part of "We can't even pay our bills" escapes you?

And you are still here because? Oh, that's right, you either can't find such an individual or that place won't accept you. Got it.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Assuming the subsidies came from a fossil fuel tax, they'd be revenue neutral.

As far as becoming Rwanda II, there's more of a chance of that (or worse) if we destroy our planet. If anything, the anti-progress, praying to some old f**k up in the sky conservative types are leading us closer to that direction than the liberals. Contrary to what the Koch-financed conservatards preach, environmental regulation and moving to cleaner technologies have NOT meant the end of the world nor the end of our economy.

Regarding moving, I can legally live basically anywhere in the EU (and unless something changes treaty-wise, Switzerland after 2014) and be 'accepted.'

You mean like the market determining what technology sells? What a concept! This concept has been around a LONG time, but I suppose B.O. hasn't figured it out yet.

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2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

The market also gave us DDT, PCBs, ozone-depleting Freons, and leaded gas. The market should NOT be the sole arbiter of what can be sold -- government should intervene, either through taxes and subsidies, or through outright bans. Yep, I'm a Socialist in that respect, and G-d damned proud of it!

And assuming a pig had wings, it would fly. You still haven't told me what you know of the "Tobacco Windfall" money the states received. Why? Could it be that it goes against your only goal of getting something going thru govt intervention? Do you really believe that the tax money garnered will not hurt anything else and really be spent for the goal you THINK it will? Since you are buying real estate, I have this bridge for sale. Here is what has happened so far. Any new source of money gives them a chance to play "Three card monty" with everything else. See your SS money.

Back to the SPDRUN rants, are we?

Sure. But where to? Does Switzerland have your benevolent dictator that you are looking for?

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Not proud enough to not want to be a capitalist when it suits you though. Go follow the teachings of Marx if you dare.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

I'm not against capitalism. I'm against unmitigated capitalism -- i.e. people shouldn't have the right to swing their fist at everyone who lives on Earth.