B.O. Says Everything's Good! - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

MS Fowler · #46 06-12-2012, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

Then you would also include the most recent example, President Carter?

Strictly speaking, yes. But business experience does not necessarily equate with the political ability to actually accomplish something. It can help--provided there is the WILL to improve things.

I believe the President did not mis-speak--at least from his POV. He truly believe that the private sector is doing fine--its increased public sector employees ( and voters) that he desires. His statement shows how truly out of touch, and dangerous he is to this country. His desire to fundamentally transform America is to move it solidly toward European Socialism at the very time when that model is failing is just moving in the wrong direction.

MTI · #47 06-12-2012, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

His desire to fundamentally transform America is to move it solidly toward European Socialism at the very time when that model is failing is just moving in the wrong direction.

While I know that this may be futile, but perhaps if you exposed yourself to examples of discourse that weren't so far left or right, your assessment of things having to be an extreme postion one way or the other would diminish. Can we recognize that being on either the left or right of the political spectrum does not mean being either red or violet, but that there are an infinite number of colors in the spectrum between the two?

The current President is a liberal/progressive. At the core of that ideology is the belief that government has the obligation and ability to help and assist the citizens of the nation. That's a long way from socialism.

Honus · #48 06-12-2012, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

How about the business experience from running a family farm/ plantation? You ignore most of the early Presidents by your strict definition.

Thomas Jefferson was a disastrous business man.

MTI · #49 06-12-2012, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

Thomas Jefferson was a disastrous business man.

Yes, but he brought mac and cheese to America. That is legacy enough for ten presidents.

MS Fowler · #50 06-12-2012, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

Yes, but he brought mac and cheese to America. That is legacy enough for ten presidents.

He also said that the view from Harpers Ferry of the confluence of the Shenandoah and Potomac Rivers was worth the voyage of the Atlantic. Its a nice view, but I disagree with his valuation of it.

MS Fowler · #51 06-12-2012, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

While I know that this may be futile, but perhaps if you exposed yourself to examples of discourse that weren't so far left or right, your assessment of things having to be an extreme postion one way or the other would diminish. Can we recognize that being on either the left or right of the political spectrum does not mean being either red or violet, but that there are an infinite number of colors in the spectrum between the two?

The current President is a liberal/progressive. At the core of that ideology is the belief that government has the obligation and ability to help and assist the citizens of the nation. That's a long way from socialism.

Its not a question of helping the citizens, its HOW BEST to help the citizens. Capitalists believe that government helps the most when it tries to do the least, and thereby imposing the least drag on the economy.
As one goes down the spectrum away from capitalism toward socialism, different people want to stop at different points along the way. The danger, as I see it, is government imposing too much burden on business that the kill the goose that laid the golden egg. Now, where I vary with some purer capitalists, is that I want business to cover the full cost of their production---the cost of remediating the environment, the cost of restoring Larry's land to its former state, etc.

elchivito · #52 06-12-2012, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Its not a question of helping the citizens, its HOW BEST to help the citizens. Capitalists believe that government helps the most when it tries to do the least, and thereby imposing the least drag on the economy.
As one goes down the spectrum away from capitalism toward socialism, different people want to stop at different points along the way. The danger, as I see it, is government imposing too much burden on business that the kill the goose that laid the golden egg. Now, where I vary with some purer capitalists, is that I want business to cover the full cost of their production---the cost of remediating the environment, the cost of restoring Larry's land to its former state, etc.

So, it sounds like in your view there is Capitalism, sort of fixed and purely defined as a single point on this spectrum, and anything that varies from that is on a slippery slope towards socialism. What am I missing here?

MS Fowler · #53 06-13-2012, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

So, it sounds like in your view there is Capitalism, sort of fixed and purely defined as a single point on this spectrum, and anything that varies from that is on a slippery slope towards socialism. What am I missing here?

Basically true, but you notice I, myself, am on that slippery slope. How far down that slope can you go before you kill it?

Botnst · #54 06-13-2012, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

Thomas Jefferson was a disastrous business man.

True. And not much of a president, either.

Botnst · #55 06-13-2012, 08:10 AM

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Originally Posted by MTI

I think the difference in reaction is much simpler . . . Quayle's comment about Murphy Brown was to denigrate and was disconnected from the national view of support for single parents, while the Will & Grace comment by Biden was reflective of the growing support for same sex marriage.

Like many other social conservatives, Quayle failed to realize that the country had moved on the issue and was friing an early shot on the so called "war against women."

Exactly.

Honus · #56 06-13-2012, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

...And not much of a president, either.

As a graduate of his University, I am duty bound to disagree with you about that. Wikipedia, an unimpeachable source if ever there was one, has him in the top 5 or so presidents. Historical rankings of Presidents of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I really have no idea how effective he was as President. The last time I took a history course was in high school in 1974 or so. All I know is that Mr. Jefferson is, and always will be, The Man in Charlottesville.

Air&Road · #57 06-13-2012, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by savas

So you're saying a business man president that was successful in the private sector raised entitlement spending, raised the debt and supported TARP? Doesn't this throw a wrench in the idea that a lot of private business experience is a prerequisite for a successful presidency?

I have NEVER said that private business experience is a prerequisite for the office of the President. What I HAVE said is that the President needs EXECUTIVE EXPERIENCE! In other words he should have run an organization BEFORE trying to run the US.

Examples:

Bill Clinton, former Governor
George HW Bush, former business owner, former head of the CIA
Ronald Reagan, former Governor and President of the Screen Actors Guild
George W Bush, former business owner, former baseball team managing partner, former governor
Jimmy Carter, former Governor and large scale farmer

You have to go back to Gerald Ford to find someone with no executive experience in the Whitehouse. Before that Richard Nixon a former governor, then LBJ and Kennedy, both no executive experience. Edit: At least JFK had commanded a small crew on a PT Boat. That's a darn site more than B.O. has ever run.

Eisenhower? Let me see, I think he ran a little military operation one time. Even Truman had run a Habadachery.

Being in the Senate is NOT executive experience. Being a community organizer is NOT executive experience. Being an admtted enthusiastic drug user is NOT executive experience..... well, that depends on whether or not he was dealing drugs I suppose. Maybe he should have listed that on his resume if he had done it. Wait a minute..... he has withheld all sorts of things from his resume, so I guess it's no surprise he left that off if he did it.

cmbdiesel · #58 06-13-2012, 09:52 AM

How 'bout 4 years as POTUS.... does that count as 'executive experience'??

Next time, mark that email as spam.

MTI · #59 06-13-2012, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryBible

Being an admtted enthusiastic drug user is NOT executive experience..... well, that depends on whether or not he was dealing drugs I suppose. Maybe he should have listed that on his resume if he had done it. Wait a minute..... he has withheld all sorts of things from his resume, so I guess it's no surprise he left that off if he did it.

Larry, think about how you came to know that he used drugs in school. Think hard about how the president withheld that part of his past . . . by writing about it in a published biography . . . So, if that's your concept of withholding that fact from anyone, I really don't speak your language.

Botnst · #60 06-13-2012, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

As a graduate of his University, I am duty bound to disagree with you about that. Wikipedia, an unimpeachable source if ever there was one, has him in the top 5 or so presidents. Historical rankings of Presidents of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I really have no idea how effective he was as President. The last time I took a history course was in high school in 1974 or so. All I know is that Mr. Jefferson is, and always will be, The Man in Charlottesville.

He was a visionary man but not an effective leader and not a good subordinate.