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  #16  
Old 08-16-2012, 07:30 AM
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Disagree about the military expenditures. Yeah, some may be unavoidable in the short term. But the long term (10-20 year) plan should be to wean ourselves off dependence on foreign energy resources and oil in general, even if this results in considerable short-term pain. This has been a continual thorn in our side since WW II, and unnecessarily at that.
I work for a defense contractor, but I am nearing retirement, so I don't really care what happens to my job. I can say that the effect of cutting defense quickly ( like 10% this year, if it happens) will be felt in the economy, and quite dramatically, IMO.

As for energy, I fully agree. We need to stop sending all that oil money overseas. I think that has gone a long way towards ruining our economy over the last 30 years , and it much of it was avoidable had we stuck with the smaller cars we had in the 80s.

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  #17  
Old 08-16-2012, 07:47 AM
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The answer is simple--getting there may not be.

The answer is to grow the economy, putting everyone to work and paying taxes.

How do we best do that?
My answer, to no one surprise, is to get rid of Obama, and the discouraging effect he has had on businesses of all size. I am not a fan of corporatism--Obama has that and Romney needs to avoid getting in bed with big business.
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  #18  
Old 08-16-2012, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by cjlipps View Post
I'm not going to weigh in here because my musings will never change anyone's mind but......
I found it interesting to contrast the two candidates' approach to the fiscal crisis. (And it is a crisis the likes of which the world has never seen before. $16T is a million a minute for almost 32 years.) BO's tax plan raises taxes on higher income folks and MR's plan lowers them. As an example the top 1% of earners will pay almost 5% more with the BO plan and almost 8% less with the MR plan.
Which one is the answer? Who knows? Heck, who knows if either would ever get passed? Just thought I'd share.

Every bit of the above statement is true. What it shows, however, is how effective B.O.'s class warfare strategy really is. With the help of the left wing media, many people believe that raising taxes on the top earners will solve the problem and make things "fair."

On the surface this is very easy to believe and sounds great. Digging into it a a layer or maybe two, shows the fault in it.

To begin with, even if you taxed the top earners at ONE HUNDRED PERCENT, that means taking ALL of their earnings, it would only net about $250B which would fall WAAAAAYYYYY short of covering the massive deficit that has massively increased under B.O. in spite of his campaign pledge to cut it in half.

Not only would that tax money not come anywhere close to covering the deficit, but taxing the top earners heavily takes away their incentive to invest. If they don't invest, then they don't produce new jobs.

This strategy is straight out of the Communist manifesto and has worked in the past in other countries,....... temporarily. It appears to be working here.
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  #19  
Old 08-16-2012, 07:51 AM
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I've been voting 3rd party since 2004.

If the vote is between the lesser of two evils why vote for either?

Do some good. Vote for real change.
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  #20  
Old 08-16-2012, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by rs899 View Post
I work for a defense contractor, but I am nearing retirement, so I don't really care what happens to my job. I can say that the effect of cutting defense quickly ( like 10% this year, if it happens) will be felt in the economy, and quite dramatically, IMO.

As for energy, I fully agree. We need to stop sending all that oil money overseas. I think that has gone a long way towards ruining our economy over the last 30 years , and it much of it was avoidable had we stuck with the smaller cars we had in the 80s.

Great post!

Unfortunately when defense spending declines, it does indeed result in lost jobs and a slower economy. That's just the way it is. If someone could wave a magic wand and make war come to a screeching halt world wide, and defense spending could go to zero, I would be happy to live a more meager life to pay for my share of it. Unfortunately that is not possible.

Sticking our heads in the sand and wittling our military to nothing is NOT smart. Do you remember when you were a kid on the playground? Who got picked on, the big strong guy that could and would fight back, or the small guy who was unable and unwilling to defend himself?
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  #21  
Old 08-16-2012, 07:55 AM
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Quit building pyramids.
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  #22  
Old 08-16-2012, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
I've been voting 3rd party since 2004.

If the vote is between the lesser of two evils why vote for either?

Do some good. Vote for real change.

Bot,

There is logic in what you say. The problem is that, up 'til now, a vote for a third party is wasted. If we could get a third party in place that I agreed with(probably wouldn't be too hard) AND,.... I said AND they had a legitimate chance of winning, I would be right there.

That said, the practicality of the situation in today's political arena means that I am forced to choose the lesser of the two evils.
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  #23  
Old 08-16-2012, 08:46 AM
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I wouldn't characterize either one as a devil. One's a pussy, and the other one is a silver spoon shill for the rich.
It was Keyser Soze, Agent Kujan. I mean the Devil himself. How do you shoot the devil in the back? What if you miss?


....................................

That was his power. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. And like that... he is gone.


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  #24  
Old 08-16-2012, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post
If he had cut the deficit in half like he promised, I would NOT be voting for Mitt.
While I rarely agree with the far right positions taken by Larry, I'm with him on this issue.

There is no way the country survives economically when Obama causes the current $17T debt to climb another $8T to $25T by the end of his next term. For those that don't believe that will happen, I challenge them to show one single example of this President attempting to conserve spending.

Let history be your guide. He likes to spend money that he does not have. Congress willingly agrees.

If you value your future at all, it's time to live within your means and put a stop to this foolishness.

So, I will vote for the devil that I don't know simply because there is a possiblity that he will restrain the unbridled expenditure of money that does not exist.
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  #25  
Old 08-16-2012, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post
Great post!

Unfortunately when defense spending declines, it does indeed result in lost jobs and a slower economy. That's just the way it is. If someone could wave a magic wand and make war come to a screeching halt world wide, and defense spending could go to zero, I would be happy to live a more meager life to pay for my share of it. Unfortunately that is not possible.

Sticking our heads in the sand and wittling our military to nothing is NOT smart. Do you remember when you were a kid on the playground? Who got picked on, the big strong guy that could and would fight back, or the small guy who was unable and unwilling to defend himself?
Defense spending to zero? Really? I'd love to see your reaction if that had been said by anyone else. We spend hugely on "Defense", more than everyone else. Whittling it down would free up productive capacity for productive things.
What do you mean live a more meager life? Instead of bullets, we could do important, productive things. Or at least have better iphone games.
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  #26  
Old 08-16-2012, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
While I rarely agree with the far right positions taken by Larry, I'm with him on this issue.

There is no way the country survives economically when Obama causes the current $17T debt to climb another $8T to $25T by the end of his next term. For those that don't believe that will happen, I challenge them to show one single example of this President attempting to conserve spending.

Let history be your guide. He likes to spend money that he does not have. Congress willingly agrees.

If you value your future at all, it's time to live within your means and put a stop to this foolishness.

So, I will vote for the devil that I don't know simply because there is a possiblity that he will restrain the unbridled expenditure of money that does not exist.
WOW!
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  #27  
Old 08-16-2012, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by rs899 View Post
I work for a defense contractor, but I am nearing retirement, so I don't really care what happens to my job. I can say that the effect of cutting defense quickly ( like 10% this year, if it happens) will be felt in the economy, and quite dramatically, IMO.
Only assuming that commensurate spending isn't undertaken in other fields. Those engineers and workers could teach science. Or build new nuclear power plants. Or set up solar arrays and wind turbines. Perhaps even build space stations. It may not be as glamourous as building F-35's, but it will keep bread on their plates.

Besides, the defense industry should be to protect this country, not a be welfare program for people like your cow-orkers.

Last edited by spdrun; 08-16-2012 at 12:53 PM.
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  #28  
Old 08-16-2012, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post
Sticking our heads in the sand and wittling our military to nothing is NOT smart. Do you remember when you were a kid on the playground? Who got picked on, the big strong guy that could and would fight back, or the small guy who was unable and unwilling to defend himself?
Do you really only see things in black and white? There's a huge space between "oversized" and "zero-sized."

If the kid spends all his time pumping iron in the school gym and doesn't take time learn basic math, where's he going to be in 10 years?
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  #29  
Old 08-16-2012, 01:21 PM
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Having seen what the GOP accomplished under the Bush administration, I hope they are not in control of anything more impotent than their tireless right hands and bottles of Nivea lotion for many years to come.
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  #30  
Old 08-16-2012, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by cullennewsom View Post
Defense spending to zero? Really? I'd love to see your reaction if that had been said by anyone else. We spend hugely on "Defense", more than everyone else. Whittling it down would free up productive capacity for productive things.
What do you mean live a more meager life? Instead of bullets, we could do important, productive things. Or at least have better iphone games.

Either you are SO FAR out there, that you're not even in this universe, or your reading comprehension needs lots of help.

I SAID, if someone could wave a magic wand that totally eliminated the need for war THEN we could bring military spending to zero. It's an impossible hypothetical. Get it?

IF there was such a magic wand and it hurt the economy I would be willing to have less money if that could keep war off the face of the Earth.

Geesh!

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