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  #46  
Old 08-16-2012, 03:31 PM
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Neither can pull us out of this mess. The problem is not the candidate’s ideology (or lack of). The biggest problem with our country is the massive amount of corruption. All the private interests, lobbying and so called political contributions have created a pseudo democracy where we go through the election motions every few years, but the machine remains unchanged. The laws are for the benefit of the rich masters who as shareholders of the conglomerates control this country and run the gov’t as though it’s an extended arm of their business enterprise.

That Americans don’t see this speaks to our short sighted pettiness. The “divide & conquer” strategy once used by colonialists is alive and well in the USA. We’re too busy arguing over stupid issues like gay marriage, definition of life, etc. so we are missing the big picture. What I also find hilarious is how quick everyone is to defend the 2nd amendment, but if anyone or any group dared to challenge the status quo via armed struggle (what the amendment is designed for), they would instantly be labeled enemy of the state. The system is impenetrable and fool proof. We’re simply expendables at this stage and the corporate elitists who control our elected officials couldn’t care less how the middle class Americans survive this mess; their sole purpose is to rape/pillage our country. The occupy movement had some glimmer of hope, but even that was dismantled almost immediately.

Sorry, if I sound like I've lost faith. I really pray we can get through this dark time and emerge united/stronger as a nation, but I just don't see it anymore.

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  #47  
Old 08-16-2012, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by spdrun View Post
Profligate defense spending doesn't insure dominance. A balanced economy with a strong (but not over-funded) military does.
That's the part that the hawks forget. The war they've prepared for will be won with resources, not guns. A bigger military eats more. Ours eats more than twice as much as everyone else's put together. Any nation or group of nations would be fools to try and amass a similar force. Especially when they can just let us spend ourselves into oblivion.
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  #48  
Old 08-16-2012, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ruchase View Post
Neither can pull us out of this mess. The problem is not the candidate’s ideology (or lack of). The biggest problem with our country is the massive amount of corruption. All the private interests, lobbying and so called political contributions have created a pseudo democracy where we go through the election motions every few years, but the machine remains unchanged. The laws are for the benefit of the rich masters who as shareholders of the conglomerates control this country and run the gov’t as though it’s an extended arm of their business enterprise.
That Americans don’t see this speaks to our short sighted pettiness. The “divide & conquer” strategy once used by colonialists is alive and well in the USA. We’re too busy arguing over stupid issues like gay marriage, definition of life, etc. so we are missing the big picture. What I also find hilarious is how quick everyone is to defend the 2nd amendment, but if anyone or any group dared to challenge the status quo via armed struggle (what the amendment is designed for), they would instantly be labeled enemy of the state. The system is impenetrable and fool proof. We’re simply expendables at this stage and the corporate elitists who control our elected officials couldn’t care less how the middle class Americans survive this mess; their sole purpose is to rape/pillage our country. The occupy movement had some glimmer of hope, but even that was dismantled almost immediately.

Sorry, if I sound like I've lost faith. I really pray we can get through this dark time and emerge united/stronger as a nation, but I just don't see it anymore.

Probably why the founders ordered the society as defined in the COTUS as limiting government as the core principle. There would be infinitely less influence available for purchase if the incessent growth of government could have been curtailed. Politicians can be bribed because they have thwarted the constitutional imperative to limit government and as a result the power they wield has great value. The founders in their wisdom foretold of this day and included in there prescription for an ordered society the ultimate fail-safe mechanism, the right to keep and bear arms, they knew it might come to the point where a tyranical government must be destroyed, they where correct.
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  #49  
Old 08-16-2012, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by cullennewsom View Post
That's the part that the hawks forget. The war they've prepared for will be won with resources, not guns. A bigger military eats more. Ours eats more than twice as much as everyone else's put together. Any nation or group of nations would be fools to try and amass a similar force. Especially when they can just let us spend ourselves into oblivion.
You make that statement based on what?

The SIPRI Yearbook 2012 shows the actual 2011 numbers as US military spending at less than 5% of our GDP and $687,105,000 out of a global defence spending total of $1,546,529,200, can you do that math? When I went to school that comes out to somewhere around 44.4% of the global military expenditures total. In other words completely contrary to your claim "twice as much as everyone elses combined" unless you've got some data to support your fantasy? Do you?

2012 numbers show 771 Billion out of the 1,735 Billion global expenditures, with the overall US% vs global total% virtually unchanged at 44.4%

The most you can get away with if you abandon the false claim you've made is that as a percentage of it's GDP the US spends not even twice the the global average the percentage of GDP all countries spend. The US spends about 4.7% of its GDP and the global county average spending is about 2.5%of GDP.

I've used a favorite liberal source WIKI, and it sources an even decidedly more liberal SIPRI!

List of countries by military expenditures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  #50  
Old 08-16-2012, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ManyBenz View Post
You make that statement based on what?
My mistake! It is as you say apparently only $687B including additional operational expenses. It still dwarfs all our potential enemies combined.
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  #51  
Old 08-16-2012, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by cullennewsom View Post
My mistake! It is as you say apparently only $687B including additional operational expenses. It still dwarfs all our potential enemies combined.
Maybe you should make a list of "all our potential enemies combined" before you start charaterizing anything as "dwarfs"? Once you get some facts to back up your newest unsupported assertion maybe someone will take it seriously!

Maybe you can even come to grips with the reality that US military hegomony is probably the greatest stabilizing influence on the globe and has been for many a decade. Do you think the world would be as peaceful as it has been if there wasn't some "Big Stick" giving piss pot tyrants around the world pause?

Military spending is the price we pay for doing the business we do around the world, that's what pays your salary and lets you sleep safely at night. You think you'd have the life you live if you didn't have US military spending protecting and ensuring it?
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  #52  
Old 08-16-2012, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ManyBenz View Post
Probably why the founders ordered the society as defined in the COTUS as limiting government as the core principle. There would be infinitely less influence available for purchase if the incessent growth of government could have been curtailed. Politicians can be bribed because they have thwarted the constitutional imperative to limit government and as a result the power they wield has great value. The founders in their wisdom foretold of this day and included in there prescription for an ordered society the ultimate fail-safe mechanism, the right to keep and bear arms, they knew it might come to the point where a tyranical government must be destroyed, they where correct.
I agree with you...
Too bad the one candidate that provided some hope of reverting to the COTUS has been disregarded and essentially forced out of the race by this broken 2 party system (and the forces behind the political machine) we seem to be holding onto so dearly.
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  #53  
Old 08-16-2012, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ruchase View Post
I agree with you...
Too bad the one candidate that provided some hope of reverting to the COTUS has been disregarded and essentially forced out of the race by this broken 2 party system (and the forces behind the political machine) we seem to be holding onto so dearly.
I don't think that is necessarily the case, it is more probably there is not enough of an electorate who recognise reality any more. It is very difficult for people to find and accept the fault in thenselves when it is so much easier to blame others and expect that the purpose of government is to be their savior. Paul, Johnson, et al just can't convince enough people too many weaklings in the electorate.
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  #54  
Old 08-16-2012, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post
Bot,

There is logic in what you say. The problem is that, up 'til now, a vote for a third party is wasted. If we could get a third party in place that I agreed with(probably wouldn't be too hard) AND,.... I said AND they had a legitimate chance of winning, I would be right there.

That said, the practicality of the situation in today's political arena means that I am forced to choose the lesser of the two evils.
A vote is never wasted.

Thus, the remainder of what you argue has poor foundation.
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  #55  
Old 08-16-2012, 08:52 PM
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Having seen what the GOP accomplished under the Bush administration, I hope they are not in control of anything more impotent than their tireless right hands and bottles of Nivea lotion for many years to come.
That made me laugh out loud! Thanks!
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  #56  
Old 08-16-2012, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ManyBenz View Post
Maybe you can even come to grips with the reality that US military hegomony is probably the greatest stabilizing influence on the globe and has been for many a decade. Do you think the world would be as peaceful as it has been if there wasn't some "Big Stick" giving piss pot tyrants around the world pause?
You mean the kind of "piss pot tyrants" that the US installed in the first place?

Quote:
Military spending is the price we pay for doing the business we do around the world, that's what pays your salary and lets you sleep safely at night. You think you'd have the life you live if you didn't have US military spending protecting and ensuring it?
Many countries have similar or higher average standards of living without outsize military spending. No one is talking about reducing military spending to zero, just by say 30-50%, enough to spend some of the money saved on things that are ALSO important to the US. Little things like education funding. Infrastructure. Transportation. A basic level of health coverage for all.

We'll still have a pretty big stick...
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  #57  
Old 08-16-2012, 08:59 PM
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LOL!
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  #58  
Old 08-16-2012, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
If you are referring to Mitt, then I say he is an odd choice. All evidence indicates that he would bust the budget beyond anything Obama ever considered doing. One piece of evidence supporting that view is that he is a Republican. They have been budget busters for years and have a much worse track record than do the Democrats. Another thing supporting my view is the Ryan "plan." Ryan's laughable assumptions indicate that he is unconcerned with debt/deficit. It's all ideology for him and Romney seems to be hitching his wagon to him.
I agree with everything that you state.

However, the current occupant of the White House will absolutely bankrupt this country.

The Republicans are running on a platform plank that states that they will control spending. The vice-presidential candidate is quite serious in this regard.

I have a bit of confidence that this Republican administration will make some feeble attempts at controlling spending.

I also have 100% confidence that the current Administration will toss out another 8 trillion dollars over the next four years.

I'm OK with the former..........I'm not OK with the latter.

Therefore, my choice is obvious.

Unless you bury your head in the sand (which you're fond of doing), your choice should be the same.
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  #59  
Old 08-16-2012, 09:55 PM
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  #60  
Old 08-16-2012, 10:30 PM
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I don't believe that Romney will control spending any more than Obama has. He's already promising mo' spending on important and vital things like ... cracking down on porn:

Reagan prosecutor: Romney promised 'vigorous' porn crackdown | The Daily Caller

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