Ah, But Sir. When religious folk try to push their beliefs on others (in general), they ARE disagreeing with it to a point. What they seem to say is "It is for your own good that I am pushing my belief on you but when someone else does it, all hell should break loose". Imagine if a Buddhist or Taoist wanted to push their belief on Christians, what would they say? OTOH, when they find ways to push their beliefs on people of different faith or no faith, well, "It's all good".

I guess I am good with people making fun either way. Hell, I don't even mind the "Dumb Chink" jokes that some of my friends make.

Religion, among many things should NOT be in government. Religion is a private thing. No, I don't appreciate you making me comply for my own spiritual good. If you want to abstain from alcohol on Sunday, why is it you can't abstain without involving me via passing a law that says liquor is illegal on that day? If it is your OPINION that birth control or abortion is murder, why can't you abstain from that without making me believe in that too? Why the Blue Laws?

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Then what is your legal argument against abortion and equal marriage. Keep in mind that currently an unborn fetus is not covered under the LOTUS and has no rights.

If your argument is not based solely on the law and relies in any way on religious beliefs then you are forcing your religious beliefs on others. Why would you promote a belief that forces your religious beliefs on others?

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From what I can see, nobody has made that fetus pass the same tests you and I would to be considered alive so I can't see why it is more than OPINION that it is alive.

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If they're promoting a political agenda, trying to influence voters - no, they should not retain tax exempt status.

If they (church or gay rights group) are feeding the needy, providing legal services, etc - true non-profit. My gut says some very large percentage of religious groups would fail a meaningful non-profit test.

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Actually, we have a technical and artificial construct of the term "life" or "life in being."

Scientist search for "life" on Mars, but would they rule out any and all organisms that are "not viable?"

Isn't that for property or inheritance purposes?

Would they be affording such organisms any rights or protections? Or is the word "life" used in a layperson term? What I am saying is that we should subject the fetus to the same test that the ER would use to declare a person dead or alive. At this point, a heartbeat is not really the defining point. If your argument is that it is a living human at conception then let it be subject to the same test the ER doctor would use to declare death or life for a human being. If it passes, it is a living human being. If not, it isn't. For you and I, it would be a "pass/fail" test. Let it be so for the fetus as well. I can't see how you get fairer than that.

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I wonder how many can grok that.

What so complicated about it? Use the same criteria for a male, female, child, fetus. All supposedly human so where is the issue?

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When was the last time you went to a funeral for a dead fetus

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Never but I have been to the grave site of my cousin's fetus. I assume they had some sort of ceremony for that blob of tissue. Either way, what is your point? I am not talking about whether it is socially pleasing or not. All I am simply stating is that if you want to make it a human life, make it fit the same criteria as any human would.

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Should the government take tax money and use it in some way that morally offends the tax payer? Is that not like forcing me to worship Thor, in your example?
This is a tough nut to crack. If we decide that it is NOT OK to use tax money for offensive actions, then the government would soon be immobile ( not necessarily bad...) because every possible action (or inaction) offends someone.

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Morality is pretty fluid. You might say this action is morally offensive to you while it is ok with me. Should morality be injected into government? If so, whose morality should we use? Regardless of your answer, someone will be unhappy. Perhaps the best is that we stick to facts and not value judgments? Obviously, based on human nature, if it goes against someone, that someone is likely to be upset till it goes in their favor then they will like it. Still, is it not fairest to decide on facts and not feelings?

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My LEGAL argument? The ONLY legal argument I have is that if the voting public decide to make these things legal and they are not found to be unconstitutional, then they become law.

Does that mean that after such law is passed that I am FORCED to believe that it's okay?

I have my own opinions, and I don't think anyone has seen too much reluctance on my part to voice them. I do NOT, however, force them on others beyond my own particular vote on referendums or for particular people seeking office. Am I not allowed to do that?

I'm not sure why I'm obliged to respond to such a question, but I did. Since I did, what is YOUR reason for thinking that someone does not have the right to voice their opinion, regardless of what it might be?

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Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

By this statement, it sounds as if all churches and gay rights groups need to give up their tax exempt status. I don't know of any that do not promote certain beliefs during their "meetings & presentations."

If you believe that most churches do not help the needy and perform other community services, I just don't know what to say to you. There are INDEED many TV ministries and other such scamsters out there that fall into the stereotype that you seem to have. Local, modest size, legitimate churches, OTOH, provide much more to the community than I think you realize.

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Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

Again, what is the point of pushing a law that interferes with somebody based on a belief? Why go mess with others?

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