My parents are pretty active in doing that sort of stupidity. They go try set up schools, etc, etc. I know they try to push their religious agenda where they can.

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Feeding the hungry is stupid? Interesting viewpoint.

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Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

What is the POINT? Well, as I've always understood it, we live in a society in which we vote on things. Is it NOT my right to vote as I choose and your right to vote as YOU choose?

I've never proposed a law or formed the opinion of someone who is seeking my vote, I only vote. How about YOU?

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Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

Seems like the perfect spot for this.



Barack Obama Depicted As Jesus: 'The Truth' Painting Draws Criticism For Controversial Metaphor

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Well, when he is indeed sacrificed and then comes back to life, I'll reconsider my position.

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Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

Well, when your kind try to push a law that restricts someone based on your opinion, you make enemies. Now if you see me pushing a law to tax your faiths coffers and strip them of tax free status wouldn't that make me your enemy? In most cases, the Blue Laws, for example have little science behind them. It's all about belief and regardless of whether you push it legally, all you do is create ill will. In which case, you wonder why you and your kind are persecuted. Perhaps that is why the early christians were thrown to the lions and rightfully so.

If your push is because it affects you, I'd say you have a point. If I want to have my neighbors cut their grass and clear the trash so we don't breed mosquitoes, that is one thing. However, if I want a neighborhood ban on say girls walking in mini-skirts or guys with their pants hanging around their crotch, it might be another issue. Fact is, your faith, at least in this part of the world has been one HUGE NOSY BAS***D.

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So when have I tried to push anything off on you? I have emphatically pronounced my point of view on this forum on numerous occasions, but all I'm doing is expressing what I happen to believe. On this forum, at work, in every day life or ANYWHERE, I have NEVER tried to force my views on anyone else.

If it comes to it in conversation I will express my views and you can express yours.

I can't think of any organizational categories with a wider variation of methods of doing things than Churches. Neither the Church I grew up in, or the ones I've attended as an adult have ever tried to force their views on anyone outside the Church.

The Churches I've been involved in have done LOTS of things for the community and the people in it and have NEVER asked anything in return or made any sort of spiritual requirement or preached to someone receiving help form the Church.

Don't shoot all the dogs, because some of them have fleas.

BTW, to my knowledge I have no enemies. If you feel right about meddling in my Church or the way we do things, that would be hypocritical on your part, but if you do so, you won't be my enemy. In America you have a right to lobby for anything you want to lobby for. That's not the way I do things, but if doing so makes you feel good, I say Go For It!

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Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

Are you yanking my chain? The purpose of that "help" is to spread their crap. I suppose you believe me when I say "I'm from the government. I'm here to help you."? Before the taliban fell, there were some that went in to Afghanistan to "help" the needy. Against regulations, they brought in some arabic bibles and got busted for it. Yeah, right. "I'm from the church and I'm here to help." sounds so convincing. It is little more than an attempt to throw some shiny beads to spread their sad faith.

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You make assumptions about me without any knowledge of what I "realize."

I am abundantly and personally familiar with the deep and profound good that some religious organizations do in this world. I have dear friends who became dear friends because of their open, kind, sincere nature - friends well before I learned they were devout followers of belief system x, y, or z.

On the flip side, I can't say that I've ever found similar traits in anybody who found it necessary to proclaim their religiousity prior demonstrating their human kindness.

My point (in my initial comment) is this: I think our tax codes are far to generous in granting (and not reviewing/repealing) tax exempt status. In my perception, organized religion benefits from this generosity to a far greater degree than any non-religious non-profit could ever hope to.

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1978 300SD: Katz the Free Man - given away
1980 Redhead: Darling Wife

Nobody is saying anything about that. I doubt anyone has a gripe about it. I am all for it.

Perhaps you can explain things like the Blue Laws? Now, if the church told the members "Don't sing on Tuesday because.....", nobody has an issue if the members don't sing. OTOH, when the church, thru the people attempt to change the rules so nobody OUTSIDE the church can sing on Tuesdays, it becomes an issue.

I have seen churches in many a country. And yes, they do have fleas and worse.

Maybe so but I doubt it would win me many friends in your organization, would it? Maybe not openly where they would run me over at the intersection but it would certainly not win me many friends.

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I never said that personal opinions should be squelched and you know that. You asserted that you never sought to force your religious opinion on others. What I asked is what is your legal reasoning for denying someone equal rights. Whether it is a majority vote or not if you are voting against someones rights you should have a legal reason behind that opinion. If you do not have a legal reason then what is your reason behind denying equal rights? If it is founded on religious principles then you are forcing your religious principles on others.

I for one have no interest in allowing rights to be voted on by the public. The Jim Crow laws are a perfect example of why that is a bad idea.

I try and not base my decisions on my own personal opinions. I do not agree with abortion personally but I have no compelling legal reason to deny a woman control over her own body so when something having to do with a womans right to choose comes up I always side on the rights of women.

I am not gay and have no interest in it but again, I have no compelling legal argument to deny others equal rights based on their sexual orientation or life style so when issues come up regarding equal rights I will always side with equal rights.

Bottom line is if you vote against equal marriage rights or against womens right to choose with out a compelling legal argument then you are forcing your views on others. Whether those views are religious or not will depend on your argument which so far you have failed to provide.

So do you have a legal argument or not?

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- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Would you like to put your rights up for a vote? We can start here on OD and work our way to the national level if you would like.

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Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

I guess I wasn't clear in my writing. There are MANY different Churches that operate in MANY different ways. Over the years I have been involved in helping LOTS of people and have NEVER promoted anything or tied any strings to it.

Not ALL Churches operate as you perceive.

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Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

So just WHEN I have I proposed that you give up any of your RIGHTS?

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2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

PLEASE show me where I have EVER proposed taking away ANYONE's rights. You really should relax before you bust a gusset.

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2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution