Cantor stalls the Violence Against Women Act - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

elchivito · #1 12-07-2012, 08:51 AM

More proof that these as sholes are not only misogynists, they are bigots to boot. Cantor and his buddies are stalling the passage of VAWA over a provision that gives tribal courts the jurisdiction to try cases of sexual assault against native women committed by non tribal members on reservations.
WTF?
The vast majority of rapes, and there are lots of rapes and assaults committed against indian women on reservations, are committed by non-indian men. Tribal courts can't try these men and off rez LEOs are loathe to prosecute. They get off scott free. I've seen it happen time and again.

Too bad Cantor's a jew, otherwise I bet the United Klans would love to recruit him.

Violence Against Women Act: Eric Cantor, Joe Biden In Talks Amid Stalled Tribal Provision

Txjake · #2 12-07-2012, 08:52 AM

that's crazy.... almost as bad as the UAE...

elchivito · #3 12-07-2012, 08:57 AM

Out of sight out of mind. After all, they're just indians.
The crimes committed on reservations by non indians and never prosecuted would make your skin crawl.

SwampYankee · #4 12-07-2012, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

Out of sight out of mind. After all, they're just indians.
The crimes committed on reservations by non indians and never prosecuted would make your skin crawl.

I can't think of any rational reason (yes, I do think all politicians are capable of fits of rationality, albeit fleeting and infrequently) there would be opposition to it.

Especially since that is the stated reason for his opposition and not some obscure, non-related amendment that has nothing to do with VAWA.

Just curious (and completely uneducated to the matter), why are the off-reservation officers unwilling to prosecute? What happens with other violent acts committed against tribal members by non-indians (say one guy assaulting another, for ex.)? Do the tribal courts try them in that case or is that handled off-reservation? Or are those cases ignored, too?

Air&Road · #5 12-07-2012, 10:11 AM

In a case like this, I don't see near as much of a problem with congress for not passing a new law as I see with the AS SHOLES that are not prosecuting these cases.

We have PLENTY of laws on the books, if they would just be ENFORCED!

spdrun · #6 12-07-2012, 10:24 AM

Comes down to money. Not all reservations have a casino or other business free of state restrictions -- some are just tracts in the middle of nowhere. No jobs, lots of illness, little hope.

elchivito · #7 12-07-2012, 11:06 AM

Actually it doesn't come down to casinos or funding. It comes down to jurisdiction. I'll give you an example. On the Navajo rez, the country's largest, you have Navajo tribal police, BIA police, County Sheriffs, and the AZ Dept. of Public Safety (Highway Patrol). Tribal police have the most jurisdiction over their own people, but almost none over non-Navajos. AZDPS officers are nominally only there to police state and federal highways that cross the rez. They aren't supposed to go off those highways without specific requests from Navajo PD. County Sheriffs do not routinely patrol and normally only supply transport help at the request of the tribal PD. Nobody knows what the BIA cops do. They are officially federal peace officers with wide ranging authority, but never seem to take an active role in anything.
The tribal court system ONLY has jurisdiction over tribal members. Sheriffs and DPS officers are often a hundred or more miles away from any given crime scene or NPD lockup.
When the Navajo police detain a non rez person for some reason, they can only hold them for a limited time (unsure here, 24hr. maybe) waiting for a DPS or Sheriff to come and take them off the rez for prosecution. They can NOT be charged on the rez due to the tribal court's limited jurisdiction.
Sex crimes in particular are a tough nut. In the Navajo way these things are traditionally handled within families. I know personally of a rape of a 16 year old by an 18 year old that was settled with the blessing of the police department by the payment of horses and sheep to the vic's family by the perp's relatives. Victims rarely report these crimes. When they do it's often well after the fact so that physical evidence is lacking. Witnesses won't talk, family honor prevents ratting out a relative or even a clan relative. DPS doesn't like to get involved for these reasons and for the fact that county prosecutors often won't file charges due to poor evidence.
For a more minor example, when I first moved up to the rez to work I used to stock up on beer and whiskey when on shopping trips to Flagstaff. Once, loaded with about a month's worth of beverages on my way back to the rez I got stopped by a Navajo cop for a tail light or expired tag or something. He gave me a warning for whatever it was and then asked if I'd been drinking. I said no I hadn't. The address on my license was on the rez. He said "look, you know the Navajo reservation is dry, alcohol is against the law, but because you're not Navajo I'd have to transport you to the holding facility and you'd be kept there till DPS comes to get you and then they'd just take you to Flagstaff where they couldn't charge you with anything and they'd let you go. So from now on cover up your beer with a blanket or something so I don't have probable cause to search your vehicle." Then he sent me on my way, WITH my liquor.
It's a real sticky deal on reservations, but the idea that Cantor et al would have reason NOT to allow tribal courts to protect their own women is beyond comprehension.

SwampYankee · #8 12-07-2012, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

Actually it doesn't come down to casinos or funding. It comes down to jurisdiction. I'll give you an example. On the Navajo rez, the country's largest, you have Navajo tribal police, BIA police, County Sheriffs, and the AZ Dept. of Public Safety (Highway Patrol). Tribal police have the most jurisdiction over their own people, but almost none over non-Navajos. AZDPS officers are nominally only there to police state and federal highways that cross the rez. They aren't supposed to go off those highways without specific requests from Navajo PD. County Sheriffs do not routinely patrol and normally only supply transport help at the request of the tribal PD. Nobody knows what the BIA cops do. They are officially federal peace officers with wide ranging authority, but never seem to take an active role in anything.
The tribal court system ONLY has jurisdiction over tribal members. Sheriffs and DPS officers are often a hundred or more miles away from any given crime scene or NPD lockup.
When the Navajo police detain a non rez person for some reason, they can only hold them for a limited time (unsure here, 24hr. maybe) waiting for a DPS or Sheriff to come and take them off the rez for prosecution. They can NOT be charged on the rez due to the tribal court's limited jurisdiction.
Sex crimes in particular are a tough nut. In the Navajo way these things are traditionally handled within families. I know personally of a rape of a 16 year old by an 18 year old that was settled with the blessing of the police department by the payment of horses and sheep to the vic's family by the perp's relatives. Victims rarely report these crimes. When they do it's often well after the fact so that physical evidence is lacking. Witnesses won't talk, family honor prevents ratting out a relative or even a clan relative. DPS doesn't like to get involved for these reasons and for the fact that county prosecutors often won't file charges due to poor evidence.
For a more minor example, when I first moved up to the rez to work I used to stock up on beer and whiskey when on shopping trips to Flagstaff. Once, loaded with about a month's worth of beverages on my way back to the rez I got stopped by a Navajo cop for a tail light or expired tag or something. He gave me a warning for whatever it was and then asked if I'd been drinking. I said no I hadn't. The address on my license was on the rez. He said "look, you know the Navajo reservation is dry, alcohol is against the law, but because you're not Navajo I'd have to transport you to the holding facility and you'd be kept there till DPS comes to get you and then they'd just take you to Flagstaff where they couldn't charge you with anything and they'd let you go. So from now on cover up your beer with a blanket or something so I don't have probable cause to search your vehicle." Then he sent me on my way, WITH my liquor.
It's a real sticky deal on reservations, but the idea that Cantor et al would have reason NOT to allow tribal courts to protect their own women is beyond comprehension.

Holy cow, talk about a legal cluster flock! Thanks for the explanation which, despite being easy to understand and complete with examples, makes things as clear as mud.

I don't understand the opposition. Although I don't understand why the tribal police and courts wouldn't have the jurisdiction over all illegal activity committed on the reservation, not just violence against the women.

elchivito · #9 12-07-2012, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwampYankee

Holy cow, talk about a legal cluster flock! Thanks for the explanation which, despite being easy to understand and complete with examples, makes things as clear as mud.

I don't understand the opposition. Although I don't understand why the tribal police and courts wouldn't have the jurisdiction over all illegal activity committed on the reservation, not just violence against the women.

I don't know the answer to that but suspect it's probably a very old regulation designed when reservations were set up, specifically to protect white folks doing business on reservations. Or maybe I'm just cynical.

abiggercamera · #10 12-07-2012, 11:37 AM

SwampYankee, you are mistaken.

It is a Custer Fluck. . .

Dudesky · #11 12-07-2012, 12:03 PM

You'd think everyone in law enforcement would have the same level of power regardless of indian or white.
Kind of antiquated.

spdrun · #12 12-07-2012, 12:06 PM

Not really, since Indian reservations aren't under state jurisdiction, only Federal. It would be like a Texas Ranger (not) having power of arrest in Kansas.

I'm surprised that tribal police don't have power over all comers, regardless of race, though. If a Kansan commits a crime in Texas, they risk arrest, just like a Texan local.

Dudesky · #13 12-07-2012, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

Not really, since Indian reservations aren't under state jurisdiction, only Federal. It would be like a Texas Ranger (not) having power of arrest in Kansas.

I'm surprised that tribal police don't have power over all comers, regardless of race, though. If a Kansan commits a crime in Texas, they risk arrest, just like a Texan local.

But if you got other non indian LE within the res, they should be able to function fully too.

Mark Rapier · #14 12-07-2012, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

More proof that these as sholes are not only misogynists, they are bigots to boot. Cantor and his buddies are stalling the passage of VAWA over a provision that gives tribal courts the jurisdiction to try cases of sexual assault against native women committed by non tribal members on reservations.
WTF?
The vast majority of rapes, and there are lots of rapes and assaults committed against indian women on reservations, are committed by non-indian men. Tribal courts can't try these men and off rez LEOs are loathe to prosecute. They get off scott free. I've seen it happen time and again.

Too bad Cantor's a jew, otherwise I bet the United Klans would love to recruit him.

Violence Against Women Act: Eric Cantor, Joe Biden In Talks Amid Stalled Tribal Provision

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

Actually it doesn't come down to casinos or funding. It comes down to jurisdiction. I'll give you an example. On the Navajo rez, the country's largest, you have Navajo tribal police, BIA police, County Sheriffs, and the AZ Dept. of Public Safety (Highway Patrol). Tribal police have the most jurisdiction over their own people, but almost none over non-Navajos. AZDPS officers are nominally only there to police state and federal highways that cross the rez. They aren't supposed to go off those highways without specific requests from Navajo PD. County Sheriffs do not routinely patrol and normally only supply transport help at the request of the tribal PD. Nobody knows what the BIA cops do. They are officially federal peace officers with wide ranging authority, but never seem to take an active role in anything.
The tribal court system ONLY has jurisdiction over tribal members. Sheriffs and DPS officers are often a hundred or more miles away from any given crime scene or NPD lockup.
When the Navajo police detain a non rez person for some reason, they can only hold them for a limited time (unsure here, 24hr. maybe) waiting for a DPS or Sheriff to come and take them off the rez for prosecution. They can NOT be charged on the rez due to the tribal court's limited jurisdiction.
Sex crimes in particular are a tough nut. In the Navajo way these things are traditionally handled within families. I know personally of a rape of a 16 year old by an 18 year old that was settled with the blessing of the police department by the payment of horses and sheep to the vic's family by the perp's relatives. Victims rarely report these crimes. When they do it's often well after the fact so that physical evidence is lacking. Witnesses won't talk, family honor prevents ratting out a relative or even a clan relative. DPS doesn't like to get involved for these reasons and for the fact that county prosecutors often won't file charges due to poor evidence.
For a more minor example, when I first moved up to the rez to work I used to stock up on beer and whiskey when on shopping trips to Flagstaff. Once, loaded with about a month's worth of beverages on my way back to the rez I got stopped by a Navajo cop for a tail light or expired tag or something. He gave me a warning for whatever it was and then asked if I'd been drinking. I said no I hadn't. The address on my license was on the rez. He said "look, you know the Navajo reservation is dry, alcohol is against the law, but because you're not Navajo I'd have to transport you to the holding facility and you'd be kept there till DPS comes to get you and then they'd just take you to Flagstaff where they couldn't charge you with anything and they'd let you go. So from now on cover up your beer with a blanket or something so I don't have probable cause to search your vehicle." Then he sent me on my way, WITH my liquor.
It's a real sticky deal on reservations, but the idea that Cantor et al would have reason NOT to allow tribal courts to protect their own women is beyond comprehension.

How is it know to you that a vast majority of rapes are committed by non-indian men when you later claim that victims rarely report these crimes?

If your other statements are to be beleived then you would have no objection to non-indian rapists avoiding prosecution, its attendent legal consequences and permanent record by settling up with the families of rape victims in exchange for some livestock? Under what principle of criminal jurisprudence does the victim's family become entitled to compensation for a rape committed against one of its females? How many ponys does the "victim" herself get, or is it more like the Islamic family/clan/tribe honor fetish? Under what principle of jurisprudence does the Navajo tribal police wield such discretion? Or should that aspect of tribal justice be reserved unequally for indians only?

Seems like everyone indian and non-indian alike have a constitutional right to equal protection before the law, no?

davidmash · #15 12-07-2012, 01:08 PM

Billy Bob is stalking us again.