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-   -   WTH is wrong with some people??? Shooting at CT Elementary School (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=332054)

cmbdiesel 12-21-2012 12:59 PM
Thanks Swamp for posting those pictures and bios....
Even though it is painful to read, we should all read them and remember that to their families, they are not statistics or numbers in a partisan political debate.

RIP.:sad:

SwampYankee 12-21-2012 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmbdiesel (Post 3070766)
Thanks Swamp for posting those pictures and bios....
Even though it is painful to read, we should all read them and remember that to their families, they are not statistics or numbers in a partisan political debate.

RIP.:sad:
That's what I was hoping the tone of the thread would be, but should have known better. :o

JB3 12-21-2012 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwampYankee (Post 3070782)
That's what I was hoping the tone of the thread would be, but should have known better. :o
well, that tone would have been struck had these children been killed in some alternate disaster, like a bus accident, or the building falling, ect.

as it was, they werent killed, they were each individually targeted and murdered.

cmbdiesel 12-21-2012 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwampYankee (Post 3070782)
That's what I was hoping the tone of the thread would be, but should have known better. :o
After 1100 posts, I am willing to allow the thread to be returned to its original theme by it's creator. I will post no other arguments here.

God bless those that died, and help those that live on.

Air&Road 12-21-2012 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmash (Post 3070750)
That is the best argument you can come up with? Sad.

I guess you must just expect nothing but arguments from people. THAT is very sad.:(

It was a SIMPLE question DIRECTLY related to your post.

Air&Road 12-21-2012 01:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dropnosky (Post 3070763)
Peoples reactions to this tragedy are pretty interesting in their differences.

Like you, I am also sad, but I have to admit being filled with a volcanic rage that this is the SEVENTH mass shooting for 2012, and look at all these wonderful kids who will never see another day. We can cry all day, and the setting is already set for the next shooting.

We weep for them, but we dam well should be acting for them as well. Be it better mental heath screening and assistance, or minor gun control safeguards.

Davidmash's proposals are so mild as to be pretty hard to object to, but still he gets huge objections from most 2nd amendment folk. I don't see his proposals really affecting the core elements of the right. It says nowhere in the amendment that you are guaranteed instantaneous firearm access with zero regulation on sale or tracking, and zero insurance that you are correctly storing and using the weapon.

He is so moderate, its amazing there is such a spirit of objection to his ideas, or others like him. Were it up to me, all weapons capable of firing one round after another with the pull of a trigger each time would be melted down into shipping ballast.

If we really want to return to the spirit of the amendment, every modern weapon would be exchanged for either a smoothbore musket, or a muzzle loading long rifle, as thats what the amendment was referring to when it was written.

:rolleyes: I can see that you are a real supporter of the constitution.:rolleyes:

JB3 12-21-2012 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air&Road (Post 3070796)
:rolleyes: I can see that you are a real supporter of the constitution.:rolleyes:

well since the founding fathers required those that qualified for weapon ownership (those that swore loyalty to the revolution) to go buy a military rifle of musket, assemble for non discretionary periodic militia drill, at which point the weapons they owned would be recorded on a registry in those days, im not sure what your real objections are to returning to the same ideals nationally.

Air&Road 12-21-2012 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dropnosky (Post 3070838)
well since the founding fathers required those that qualified for weapon ownership (those that swore loyalty to the revolution) to go buy a military rifle of musket, assemble for non discretionary periodic militia drill, at which point the weapons they owned would be recorded on a registry in those days, im not sure what your real objections are to returning to the same ideals nationally.

I suppose I'll have to reread the constitution. Can't remember the word "musket" in there anywhere.

JamesDean 12-21-2012 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air&Road (Post 3070846)
I suppose I'll have to reread the constitution. Can't remember the word "musket" in there anywhere.
Correct. it just says arms.

Quote:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Since it just says arms, I should be able to go out and buy ICBMs and tanks and such too. Maybe a few nuclear warheads while I'm out?

Well no, because we know the power of those weapons, the amount of damage they can inflict and the level of skill required to operate them well. So we restrict the sale, construction and deployment of them. We know better.

I do not think for even a split second the founding fathers of this country could have envisioned anything remotely as powerful as nuclear weapons. Hell, the men who built them could not fathom it. We've all heard Dr. Oppenheimer's famous words. "Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."

Probably the same can be said for the modern firearm. The ability to put an 7+ bullets into a person in under a minute? Most likely unfathomable at the time. You would need 7+ people!

Do you think that if the founding fathers knew of the potential power and damage of modern firearms, they too would have restricted them as we have restricted other Arms?

Additionally, that first line of the amendment seems to hint that the point of the arms was to protect the State. Not the individual. Further more it says "well regulated Militia."

Air&Road 12-21-2012 02:53 PM
Militia refers to anyone and everyone. The idea was if we are getting invaded, by a foreign force or our own government, we all grab our arms (hoes, axes, swords, guns....) group up and take them on. At that point, you and I and the countrymen that join up with us are the militia.

BTW it doesn't say "State" it says "free State," not referring to the government, but to freedom.

JamesDean 12-21-2012 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air&Road (Post 3070871)
Militia refers to anyone and everyone. The idea was if we are getting invaded, by a foreign force or our own government, we all grab our arms (hoes, axes, swords, guns....) group up and take them on. At that point, you and I and the countrymen that join up with us are the militia.

BTW it doesn't say "State" it says "free State," not referring to the government, but to freedom.
I don't think militia refers to anyone and everyone in this case. They specifically said "well regulated." If you and I grab out pitchforks and march into town a militia we might be but well regulated we are not.

If you look at the actual text itself from the Constitution

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/SecondAmendentoftheUnitedStatesConstitution.jpg

The S is clearly capitalized. I don't believe they were referring to the state of being free/freedom but a State (i.e Ohio, New York).

My history is a bit weak but was not one of the big issues back in the date States government vs Central?

Air&Road 12-21-2012 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesDean (Post 3070874)
I don't think militia refers to anyone and everyone in this case. They specifically said "well regulated." If you and I grab out pitchforks and march into town a militia we might be but well regulated we are not.

Who's to say? You might be our leader and be the greatest general since Sun Tzu. It's not as if the leaders during the American Revolution were West Point grads.

You have to put the constitution in context. Much of the founding fathers worries centered around preventing the government from getting too powerful and taking control of the people. Something that is difficult for people today, especially liberals to get their arms around.

JamesDean 12-21-2012 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air&Road (Post 3070877)
Who's to say? You might be our leader and be the greatest general since Sun Tzu. It's not as if the leaders during the American Revolution were West Point grads.
Ha, wouldn't that be something.

hill 12-21-2012 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jplinville (Post 3070528)
So, by "certified safe", you're now saying not only fully locked up, but that the safe should be a fire safe as well?? Sorry...but are you aware of the cost of a 1/2 hour fireproof gun safe that will hold a hunting rifle?? $800 and up. Not everyone can afford a safe like that...

Will Obama care extend to supply certified fire safes now??
If you’re on a budget and cheap like me and have a walk in closet. Get a used solid core door and a deadbolts/doorknob pack. First refinish the door to make mama happy. Install the hardware and counter sink some holes on the door side of the holes to accept a protruding screw from the jam side. Total cost less than $100.

As far as fire and ammo go just store it sideways at floor level. Bullets don’t go very far if they have nothing to push against.

Bio-Chem-Philo 12-21-2012 03:15 PM
Having a good general, having a degree from West Point, none of that really defines the words you keep ignoring: Well Regulated. Also, you ignored his previous argument about whether any and all arms should or should not be regulated in their own right. You can say what you want, but you've been defeated until you actually respond to the arguments that defeat your point(s ).


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