WTH is wrong with some people??? Shooting at CT Elementary School - Page 65 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cmbdiesel · #**961** 12-19-2012, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

I suppose that it was inevitable that this thread would turn to the subject of gun control rather than the real problem, the SICKY that USED the guns. We need SICKY control. A gun is completely incapable of killing someone by itself.

BTW, the constitution does INDEED put forth the right to BEAR arms. It says nothing about extending the PRIVILEDGE to bear arms.

Interesting that you word it such....

Bear arms... does that really mean to own them? Maybe it just means you can carry them around.

All the focus on the definition of 'infringe', maybe we should dig deeper into the meaning of the word 'bear'

cmbdiesel · #**962** 12-19-2012, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

Please, please tell me how this stupid idea could have possibly saved ANYONE in CT.

You keep coming up with ideas that have absolutely NO bearing on what happened, nor would they have stopped this tragic mass murder from happening.

You're grasping at straws...

Whose guns killed those people?
Where did the shooter get them?
Maybe because you are a 'leave loaded weapons in every room of the house' kind of guy, the concept is escaping you.

davidmash · #**963** 12-19-2012, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

Please, please tell me how this stupid idea could have possibly saved ANYONE in CT.

You keep coming up with ideas that have absolutely NO bearing on what happened, nor would they have stopped this tragic mass murder from happening.

You're grasping at straws...

If the guns were locked up the kid would not have had access to them.

Botnst · #**964** 12-19-2012, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

If the guns were locked up the kid would not have had access to them.

Yeah, mum would hide the key or combination where her son could never find it.

I'm sure that's a violation of one of the Laws of Thermodynamics.

davidmash · #**965** 12-19-2012, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

I'll waste this last post to you, then I'm done explaining it to you and David...It is impossible to enforce all gun owners having a "certified" safe. The only thing you would succeed in doing is causing more money to be spent by law abiding gun owners, as well as countless regulations on what a certified safe should or should not contain. If someone wants to illegally get a firearm, they're going to do it no matter what the law says. That's been proven time and time again.

What you are proposing is nothing more than trying to appease emotions...

As for the number of guns someone owns...how many cars, or pens, or anything do you own? I personally own the multiples of same gun in multiple different configurations.

Here in PA, all handgun sales go through an FFL person, it's called a transfer. They don't track registrations, as it's against the law here...However, they track the transfer. Also, some rifles must go through an FFL dealer for transfer as well. Again...they don't require registration.

Well, I'll keep trying.

Lock your guns up or your going to jail if they are used in the commission of a crime. You want to play Russian Roulette go for it. I could care less if you end up in jail or not.

This is just like speed limits. The law is in place. We all know it. Cops do 'random inspections'. If you speed you risk a ticket. Most people speed, we drive slower than we would if there were no speed limits.

cmbdiesel · #**966** 12-19-2012, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

I'll waste this last post to you, then I'm done explaining it to you and David...It is impossible to enforce all gun owners having a "certified" safe. The only thing you would succeed in doing is causing more money to be spent by law abiding gun owners, as well as countless regulations on what a certified safe should or should not contain. If someone wants to illegally get a firearm, they're going to do it no matter what the law says. That's been proven time and time again.

That is part of what we would like to address.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

As for the number of guns someone owns...how many cars, or pens, or anything do you own? I personally own the multiples of same gun in multiple different configurations.

Here in PA, all handgun sales go through an FFL person, it's called a transfer. They don't track registrations, as it's against the law here...However, they track the transfer. Also, some rifles must go through an FFL dealer for transfer as well. Again...they don't require registration.

Sure, I bet I could load up my car with person to person purchased handguns in PA in a matter of hours.

The fact that the sales, even through an FFL, are not tracked is a compelling argument for federal standards.

cmbdiesel · #**967** 12-19-2012, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymr

It doesn't matter, as long as it's stored safely. But a culture change has to happen amongst gun owners. Just like smoking is no longer cool, it should be unacceptable for owners to keep loose unattended firearms around. There should be public service messages on TV and billboards encouraging locked storage. Owners should also encourage each other the same way and, and eventually it will make a difference without affecting ownership rights at all. With rights come some responsibilities.

well put.

davidmash · #**968** 12-19-2012, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymr

It doesn't matter, as long as it's stored safely. But a culture change has to happen amongst gun owners. Just like smoking is no longer cool, it should be unacceptable for owners to keep loose unattended firearms around. There should be public service messages on TV and billboards encouraging locked storage. Owners should also encourage each other the same way and, and eventually it will make a difference without affecting ownership rights at all. With rights come some responsibilities.

Unless there is a severe penalty for a stolen weapon gun owners won't do it. Needs to be a stick used to encourage compliance.

JamesDean · #**969** 12-19-2012, 10:54 PM

Saw this just now..

After countless people cited bad studies and old data. I pooled statistics from the FBI, ATF, CDC, DOJ & so on. Assault Rifles? Hardly. : politics

cmbdiesel · #**970** 12-19-2012, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I attempted to snopes the Kenneshaw ga facts and did not find anything.'

Looking it wikipedia I found this as a portion of the listing there:

A 2001 media report stated that Kennesaw's crime rates continued to decline and were well below the national average, making citizens feel safer and more secure.[20] Later research claims that there is no evidence that [the law] reduced the rate of home burglaries [in Kennesaw],[21][22] even though the overall crime rate had decreased by more than 50% between 1982 and 2005.[23]

So apparently it is not as simple and clear as suggested by our pro-gun friends. I believe the contradictory study must have found that yes, the crime rate was down but no there was no evidence that it was because of the gun law.

As our friend likes to say (over and over and over and over) Correlation is not causation. (did I say that right?)

correlation is not causation.

davidmash · #**971** 12-19-2012, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Yeah, mum would hide the key or combination where her son could never find it.

I'm sure that's a violation of one of the Laws of Thermodynamics.

He was not allowed to own or posses weapons under CT law. It was her responsibility. Had there been a law in effect that required the weapons to be secured it is possible he would not have had access to them. Had she survived and such a law was in effect, she would have faced prosecution and jail time.

Since there are no real gun control laws in place that are actually effective and address the issues there are 20 or so dead kids and we will never know what could have happened.

raymr · #**972** 12-19-2012, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

Unless there is a severe penalty for a stolen weapon gun owners won't do it. Needs to be a stick used to encourage compliance.

Maybe if the NRA and gun clubs made a promise and commitment to pursue such a policy, then maybe new laws wouldn't be necessary.

Botnst · #**973** 12-20-2012, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesDean

Saw this just now..

After countless people cited bad studies and old data. I pooled statistics from the FBI, ATF, CDC, DOJ & so on. Assault Rifles? Hardly. : politics

The article was not directly linked.

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1X9uhG3U6ib9CfYKWfQ8XTQHg3tyxO9TARYPXesr0NGI

MS Fowler · #**974** 12-20-2012, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

He was not allowed to own or posses weapons under CT law. It was her responsibility. Had there been a law in effect that required the weapons to be secured it is possible he would not have had access to them. Had she survived and such a law was in effect, she would have faced prosecution and jail time.

Since there are no real gun control laws in place that are actually effective and address the issues there are 20 or so dead kids and we will never know what could have happened.

You have more faith than I.
How many "hiding" places are there in a house? In a house where mom or mom and dad work so the kids are free to roam and explore. Kids never manage to find stuff their parents hide do they? Like "those " books and movies. Kids probably have a better knowledge of stuff in their parent's house than the parents do.
Your second paragraph is interesting--it states that current laws are not effective, and then makes the curious LEAP that future laws will be effective.
Its easier to believe ( and smarter, too) that something that has happened in the past will happen again than to assume that something that has never happened will happen. Gun laws do not prevent gun deaths.

Air&Road · #**975** 12-20-2012, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Yeah, mum would hide the key or combination where her son could never find it.

I'm sure that's a violation of one of the Laws of Thermodynamics.