Zimmerman verdict - Page 51 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

MS Fowler · #**751** 07-21-2013, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

As I understand the typical law is that the victor (in this case zimmerman) would had to prove he did all possible to avoid the confrontation and resorted to self defense as a last resort. I believe it is assume that the "victim" would have tried to flee because jot many people want to get their as kicked or murdered.

Suppose someone attacks you. Do want to have to prove-beyond a reasonable doubt--that you tried to flee? That sounds like a presumption of guilt.
I understand the right to self defense is common law. Will that stand the modern courts?

I also see how SYG can lead to aggressive behavior.
Maybe we repeal SYG and go back to the common law standard that you have the right to defend yourself.

t walgamuth · #**752** 07-21-2013, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorn

Maybe not directly and depending how far they go back, slavery was common in Indiana before 1800.

I have never met anyone from Indiana whose family ever owned any slaves. Everybody I knew their forefathers sweated themselves to grow things.

t walgamuth · #**753** 07-21-2013, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engatwork

Did farmers use the RR Tom? Didn't Chinese slaves build the RR to the west

.

The Chinese built the western part of the railroad heading east. They were not slaves but worked as hard as slaves. The rails from Missouri to the meeting point were built by mostly free men too, Irish, Mormons perhaps a few slaves, I'll have to check about that.

t walgamuth · #**754** 07-21-2013, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Suppose someone attacks you. Do want to have to prove-beyond a reasonable doubt--that you tried to flee? That sounds like a presumption of guilt.
I understand the right to self defense is common law. Will that stand the modern courts?

I also see how SYG can lead to aggressive behavior.
Maybe we repeal SYG and go back to the common law standard that you have the right to defend yourself.

I think most law enforcement types don't like SYG at all.

Dubyagee · #**755** 07-21-2013, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I think most law enforcement types don't like SYG at all.

You'd be wrong.

cmbdiesel · #**756** 07-21-2013, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Then there is no role for Neighborhood Watch, because they have virtually no training and little experience.

From the National Neighborhood Watch website -

Our Participants Handbook states, "Always remember that your responsibility is to report crime. Do not take any risks to prevent a crime or try to make an arrest. The responsibility for apprehending criminals belongs to the police/sheriff."

Neighborhood Watch participants act as additional eyes and ears for law enforcement.
They do not take the law into their own hands.
We Look Out For Each Other is our motto.

Home - National Neighborhood Watch Institute

btw - emphasis and color are theirs.

cmbdiesel · #**757** 07-21-2013, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

OK, lets look at SYG. That is a separate issue than this particular case, and I think you understand that.
OTOH, if there is no SYG, then is the victim of an assault legally required to show he tried to flee? Are we legislating to blame the victim?

Victim needs to show that there were no other viable alternatives than deadly force.
Doesn't mean you need to get knifed in the back, means that if it's a shouting match, then you aren't allowed to shoot the other guy.

SYG is a real feel-good piece of legislation, but (at least in Florida) it is a poorly written law that has had many instances of protecting people that it was never intended to.

cmbdiesel · #**758** 07-21-2013, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubyagee

You'd be wrong.

I think that it is you who is incorrect in your assertion.
Many police departments do not like SYG.

Dubyagee · #**759** 07-21-2013, 08:49 PM

Link? From my personal experience with family and friends in the force, you'd be wrong. But better to claim than prove I guess.

t walgamuth · #**760** 07-21-2013, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engatwork

Did farmers use the RR Tom? Didn't Chinese slaves build the RR to the west

.

The transcontintental railroad was helped to be made possible by Lincoln. It began construction in 1863 so I don't think there were any slaves used to build that...probably some free black folks.

cmbdiesel · #**761** 07-21-2013, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubyagee

Link? From my personal experience with family and friends in the force, you'd be wrong. But better to claim than prove I guess.

oh... personal friends and family in 'The Force'!!! wow!!
Maybe they have a link for you....
Unless you would rather just claim than prove.

Dubyagee · #**762** 07-21-2013, 08:58 PM

As expected.

cmbdiesel · #**763** 07-21-2013, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubyagee

As expected.

You made a statement, and I'm just asking for more than anecdotal evidence.
Should be easy to find.

I haven't looked for any evidence to support my contrary position, as I figure it will be easier to dissect whatever you provide....

cmbdiesel · #**764** 07-21-2013, 09:07 PM

Here's one LEO/SWAT member's opinion.

A Police Officer Speaks on ALEC and "Stand Your Ground" | PR Watch

Dubyagee · #**765** 07-21-2013, 09:08 PM

My statement was in response to TWs assumption. You then interjected with another assumption and I am the one that needs to provide evidence. Brilliant.