Originally Posted by vwnate1

Good points all Squig but you're still never going to win this one .

Unlike most here I've lived in American and third world shyteholes and seen poverty and slavery up close and personal, it's wrong, period and part of why we take in Foster kids .

Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog

Veganism is growing fastest in countries that have information available to them. Now instead of just saying, "I think it's wrong to eat animals", we can show people through YouTube and social media exactly WHY we are saying this, and can show proof of what eating meat is doing to animals, peoples' health, and the environment. Third world countries do tend to stay in the dark ages.

Poor countries often eat mostly vegan because it's more expensive to grow animals for meat than it is to grow vegetables. Meat is a luxury item. Those poor countries that still eat meat would do better to eat a more efficient diet. If someone is living in a country where the land is so desolate that absolutely nothing edible and nutritious will grow, and all they have are animals that eat grasses or plants that aren't edible or nutritious to humans, they have justification in eating animals if they would otherwise die. We are not even close to being in that situation.

Japan had a ban on meat for 1,200 years. Current statistics show Japan is 96% plant-based (though of course this will change due to the fast food chains being introduced), and they have the longest life expectancy. Compare that to the USA, which is only 68% plant-based. Yet even with our wealth and modern medicine, the USA has one of the shortest life expectancies and the poorest health. Why? Heart disease and poor cardiovascular health. Osteoporosis and diabetes are also a big problems.

If a person doesn't have to kill an animal in order to survive and thrive, and they do it simply for the pleasure of eating the animal, I would say that's a psychopathic behavior. Some people kill and eat other people because they like it. Why is that different? Because it might be you next? Killing for survival is totally different than killing for pleasure. If a person HAS to kill, they HAVE to kill (or die). Their hand is forced. But if a person doesn't have to kill, and in fact if their health, the animal, and the planet were better off if the person didn't kill that animal, yet they do it anyway just because they're addicted to the taste, doesn't that look like an immoral decision?

With the above said, I don't think that people are really bloodthirsty killers by nature, but I think that people tend to follow tradition, even if it's immoral. It's uncomfortable to break the chain and look like an odd duck, or as was written by another poster, a "fruitcake". I also think that people who have had difficult lives and have suffered oppression tend to "get it" more because they've been on the other end of mistreatment and have more empathy. It's hard to have empathy when one has lived a comfortable life.

Originally Posted by Zulfiqar

it seems like you are really trying hard to prove something that you are comfortable with is perfectly ok for everyone else too.

the reason for bad health in USA is primarily not because of meats, dairy and eggs its because of extremely expensive healthcare. Now speaking of social media, I dont think the bushmen in the kalahari know what social media is and they can really teach you a lesson in forage. - They themselves dont eat meats daily (not because of its scarcity either)

They have lived their way for thousands of years - why are not they extinct? Human is an omnivore and an omnivore eats meats too.

dogs OTOH - when in the wild dont eat berries or veggies, they hunt down their meal and eat it. same as big cats - they dont "feast" on a bed of tabbouli salad - they kill a hoofed animal and eat that. Should we show them some social media clips too?