I can see it after the equipment has been turned off and water stops flowing.

The depth we're talking about is between .5 and 2 inches.

__________________
Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat

I recondition w123/w126/w124/w140/r107/r129/ steering boxes!


1984 300D "Elsa" odo reset 6/2011 147k
1983 300TD "Mitzi" ~268k OM603 powered
1995 E300 "Adelheid" 262k [Sold]

Yes. The equipment is turned on and the flow increases to a steady level until the equipment is shut off.

__________________
Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat

I recondition w123/w126/w124/w140/r107/r129/ steering boxes!


1984 300D "Elsa" odo reset 6/2011 147k
1983 300TD "Mitzi" ~268k OM603 powered
1995 E300 "Adelheid" 262k [Sold]

I forgot about that solution. Good one.

Chocolate frosting. Seriously. Comes in an aerosol or squeeze pouch, water soluble. Tasty, too.

Can you make a viewing portal?

Effectively? No.

There are viewing portals in one of the test units, but you can't see the end of the gutters because flowing water impedes direct line of sight.

This is why we're looking for a tell tale solution we can observe after the equipment is shut off.

__________________
Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat

I recondition w123/w126/w124/w140/r107/r129/ steering boxes!


1984 300D "Elsa" odo reset 6/2011 147k
1983 300TD "Mitzi" ~268k OM603 powered
1995 E300 "Adelheid" 262k [Sold]

Fascinating .

__________________
-Nate
1982 240D 408,XXX miles
Ignorance is the mother of suspicion and fear is the father

I did then what I knew how to do ~ now that I know better I do better

I rotate back to this post periodically out of curiosity. What exact shape is the water trough? is it possible to make a dam that you lower in until the water almost starts to back up? Behind it. As it is flowing.


After some thought and having limited instrumentation. Actually none for practicle purposes. A simple concept might be to cut a slit vertically and install a piece of plexiglass in it. Then just measure the level after marking the visual high point of the flow with a thin line marker on the outside of the thin plexiglass. The inside of the plexiglass should be flush with the inside of the trough. As you do not want a turburlance effect present there. Careful fitting and a little silicone sealer around the edges of the plexiglass should do it. I doubt anyone could prove you wrong without much more sophistication. You do not have enough inputs to solve this with math. Actually the high point of the flow should be a constant anyways.

Or if the flow rate is low just put dye in the water at some earlier point. It should leave a stain at the high water point.

No dyes in the equipment. It's not a viable option.

The shape is unique enough that it would be near impossible to create a viewing port.

Creating a dam would interfere with the airflow in the system.

Thanks for the thoughts.

__________________
Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat

I recondition w123/w126/w124/w140/r107/r129/ steering boxes!


1984 300D "Elsa" odo reset 6/2011 147k
1983 300TD "Mitzi" ~268k OM603 powered
1995 E300 "Adelheid" 262k [Sold]

This is why it's an Engineering problem .


I feel this would be a great teaching thing : give it to multiple students and see how they work it out .

So many new products are engineered with no concept of their real life usages, making them worthless from the jump .

-Nate

The problem is we don't have all the necessary information up front. Not likely to devise the solution without a clear/complete representation of the problem.

Think plimsol marks on a ships hull, put a water proof camera in the chamber and record the flow depth. You know the gutter x section math so can figure volume/depth...I assume you are replicating a catagory 5 storm, where some unknown amout gets blown about.
I'd set the gutter at 1/4" to 12" slope. Have it drain into a series of 50 gallon drums and time their fill rate.
With all the results in, turn it over to the marketing department for spin.

The thing is, you have all the information you need. I asked for a specific solution to a specific problem. I didn't ask for anyone reframe the problem.

The camera won't see anything, it'll be under a flow of water.

The gutter slope is already fixed and will not be changed. The equipment conditions are already set and can't be replicated either.

__________________
Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat

I recondition w123/w126/w124/w140/r107/r129/ steering boxes!


1984 300D "Elsa" odo reset 6/2011 147k
1983 300TD "Mitzi" ~268k OM603 powered
1995 E300 "Adelheid" 262k [Sold]

Apparently you don’t like off-the-shelf instrumentation. Ok.

If you have depth, regardless of the shape is the container, you have pressure at any depth. A simple sightglass attached by hollow tube at top and bottom gets you close to instantaneous depth, depending on velocity, tube pore diameter and tube length. Easily accounted for. Get velocity approximation by angle of bed of channel also need roughness, which is where Manning’s comes in.

Can’t use a sightglass, either?

A flow problem that doesn’t allow existing instruments or a sightglass is a stupid customer or a schoolhouse exercise. If the latter, good luck with that. If the former — that’s a hell of a problem!

Perhaps we are over complicating this. A thirty six inch piece of very stiff music wire with a float at one end and a center pivot. The high and low point of the float should duplicated on the far end of the music wire.


The weight or load of the wire will be offset or neutralized by using a center pivot. Certain foams float with almost no detectable ingress into water. The only thing I can think of that is negative is the possibility of turbulence. Otherwise it should easily give you the peak levels.


This should allow at least a reasonable insertion into the end of a closed channel. You would want to be back in the channel at least a foot I suspect. Calibration is fairly easily accomplished. With a piece of paper or whatever secured close to the free end. You can easily pre calibrate it probably. Once it is set up. Since there is no loading on the foam from the wire. You can find the level of immersion of the foam from it's own mass. It should be small. Almost nothing for common sense purposes.

Foam even appears to have difficulty breaching the surface tension of water. If it's mass is distributed well. Drop a piece of foam on water in a wind and watch it go. There is an issue with this problem. As the water gets closer to the end of the channel it accelerates. That is why the level drops. It will be progressive from some point back in the channel. You post your results from the measured distance back up the channel. There are a few kinks in this approach though. If a lot of wind is exiting the channel at the same time.

Another thought was a series of tubes at different lengths. Grouped together with a compact but heavy base. Even vertical straws slid in along the bottom of the channel again with perhaps a stiff piece of music wire. The last straw in the arrangement with water in it is you max flow height. You want to design it so it presents the least frontal cross section to the flow possible. Personally I think the second choice of the two may be both easier and perhaps helps with the wind in the channel.

This problem could perhaps be solved with only one piece of information. It just is not there or I am missing it. Unless there is a water meter on the input. Whoever gave out this problem may have the answer. My guess is they are more interested in how an attempt is made to solve it. Or the methology if you wish.