My mother was a bookkeeper. She made me take two years of accounting in high school. That and one college course in quantitative analytical economics (a.k.a. "engineering economics") has benefitted me greatly in life. That class was required when I was in college, early 1980's. But, there's more computer stuff to learn now, and there's only so much you can cram into four years. So, it's not a required class in engineering school anymore.

Most of her life, my mother said that every high school student should take accounting before allowing to graduate. Later in life she changed her mind, saying if everybody knew how to manage money, our economy would collapse.

I was only allowed one elective in high school. I chose typing because my handwriting was atrocious.

Rightly so, I actually tried to take an econ course in college and got booted from engineering (I was interested in the modeling crossover, for the record) since it did not strictly fit their curriculum. They were also total a-holes about it, but all for the better since that is basically now my livelihood. Econ isn't really necessary unless you are on an engineering management path or interested in applied statistical modeling components.

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TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth

the 25 year old at our post office thought i was a conjurer because i would figure out the change before he could do it on a calculator!!
i also handed a gas attendant $21 for a $16 purchase and lets just say i ended up with 6 one dollar bills back and felt fortunate that he didn't punch me in the face

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0o==o0

James 4:8

"...let us put aside the blindness of mind of those who can conceive of nothing higher than what is known through the senses"
-Saint Gregory Palamas, ---Discourse on the Holy Transfiguration of Our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ


Centrally located in North East Central Pa.

LOL ~ I almost had that occur yesterday at lunch ~ the bill was $4.93 so I gave the middle aged (new) cashier a $20 bill and .93 cents, he rang it up and the register told him to give me back $201.00..................

No, I didn't take advantage of him, we had to get the (early 20's) manager over to void the sale and ring it up correctly, he still didn't understand why I got $16 back....

We're DOOMED .

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-Nate
1982 240D 408,XXX miles
Ignorance is the mother of suspicion and fear is the father

I did then what I knew how to do ~ now that I know better I do better

When I go to farmers markets down here, everything is cash only, and in even dollar amounts. Three for a dollar this, a dollar each that, four for five dollars another. All the cashier has to do is count in whole numbers.

The movie Idiocracy is a documentary.

Your mother bless her heart was totally right. I have been aware that if the majority did financial things like the wife and I practice. The economy would collapse is almost certain.

This is a consumer based economy that can only exist if insane consumption levels are maintained. It has reached a stage where money in the form of credit is being basically forced on consumers to sustain it.

I have no ideal of when the point of too much credit saturation occurs if at all. I suspect some form of effort will evolve to force the continuance of what currently is. Reducing the average practical current lifespan of many products is already a necessity.

It is already too late. North America society in general has gone from a basically paid up existence to a primary debtor society. This is a reduction of the financial well being of too many citizens. As well as all levels of government. The standard of living has fallen but excessive credit usage is masking it. For too high a percentage of the population.

So it is just not the spread of incomes involved as a problem. There is a larger gap forming between the haves and have nots as well.

I worked at a Navy engineering laboratory in a low-cost-of-living area. Most of the STEM's will end their careers making the exact same salary, around $100k. Their net worth at retirement age varies from a negative number to somewhere around $4M. I have to say "at retirement age" because many of those near or below $0 net worth die while getting ready to go to work.

Yeah, the middle class is shrinking. A lot of that is because of the loss of manufacturing jobs in general, and high-wage manufacturing jobs in particular. The days of making $40/hour running an electric screwdriver are over. The days of fat pensions are over, too.

I had an old girlfriend (with an AS in business, no less) who measured her financial well being by how much more she could borrow on her credit cards before max'ing them out. So, to her getting a new credit card with a $5000 limit was the same as getting $5000. FICO scores are another sucker metric. I've never seen anybody who knows their FICO score who isn't broke.

I ran into a friend Friday at lunch. He's in his mid-60's and now completely penniless, other than vehicles and home equity. He had about $100k in some stock that he inherited 20 years ago. The brokerage told him they were going to start charging inactivity fees. So, he sold the stock and off to the BMW dealership he went, turning in his just over two year old leased M240i for a new M4. He's lucky, though. He squeaked into the old federal pension system (CSRS) right before the gate came down in 1983, and brought four years of active duty time with him. He pretty much just shows up to earn that 100k/year, so working a few more years would be easy. His take-home pension will be about 85% of his take home pay when working, and his house will be paid off. He's gone form college commencement to retirement close to zero net worth.

I know my FICO score and I ain’t broke. It is right there on my bank app. I look at it periodically, and can’t figure out why it wobbles between 848 and 868, where it is now. I had thought they ended about 850, but it seems banks use a slightly different score. I do nothing different one month to the next, every bill gets paid in full well before the due date.

My bank app is freaking a little bit because my spending went WAY UP this past month. Why? We decided to convert our regular IRAs to Roths, so had to cycle some cash through the checking account to pay the estimated tax.

O.k. Change my comment from "know" to "worry about."

Yeah, FICO scores are all over the place for free now. There are a lot of other "credit scores" floating around, too.

The most commonly reported FICO score is FICO 9, and it only goes from 300 to 850. But, the car loan writers seem to like FICO 8.

I managed to get my real FICO 9 score to hit the perfect 850 for one month. I gamed that by paying all my credit card statement balances before the end of the month. The end of the month is when financial institutions report activity to the credit "bureaus."

Credit scores are a sucker metric. But, it's amazing how many people use them as a measurement of financial wellbeing.

One of the best ways to increase your financial well being is quadruple bypass surgery that puts you on your ass for several months. (Assuming you are a normal, middle class guy with good insurance.) It is also effective in weight loss. I don’t recommend it, but it is effective.

I know from personal experience.

One of my attorneys did a lot of bankruptcy cases back in the day. He said that his bankruptcy clients pretty much all fell equally into three categories:

1. Dumbasses.

2. People wiped out by a soon-to-be-ex-spouse racking up debt.

3. Serious medical issues that caused loss of income and massive medical bills at the same time.

I was laid up for three months once with a severe back injury. I had to heel up for six weeks before they could operate. But, I had plenty of sick leave and good insurance. All I had to worry about was getting well.

We charge about 80% of our total spending, and pay off the statement balances every month. That seems to have run our FICO scores up. We're what credit card companies call... "deadbeats."

“Deadbeat” is such an ugly word.

The term actually refers to a clock mechanism. Many inexpensive pendulum clocks use anchor escapements, which rebound a little with each tick or tock. A deadbeat mechanism is technically more advanced, with a positive tick and tock, so less wasted motion and greater accuracy.

Anchor:

https://s14-eu5.startpage.com/wikioimage/293ae64969c5755937fbc4e0ed5993f0.gif

Deadbeat:

https://www.mpoweruk.com/images/deadbeat_escapement.gif

In banking, the term "deadbeat" refers to someone who monotonously pays bills on time. They're desirable as customers only because supply reliable volume, but produce little fee revenue. The bank makes more money from everyone else, who are called "our best customers". if a banker ever calls you this, seek help.

As an aside, you may be interested in knowing that debit cards are designed to maximize overdrafts. In the old days, they would reorder your charges to optimize fee revenue. But even without this trick, a heavy debit card user is pure joy to the bank. A checking account is a very busy place, and the timing of deposit and debit events is unpredictable. Sooner or later, you'll overdraft if you use a debit card. It's designed that way.