while trying to find something to work on on my 500 SE today I had a brief insight, That since by shear luck I aquired my first MB (74 240D) five years ago and now own three MB's ! that they have played a considerable roll in improving my whole outlook on life.I can't think of anything other than my collection of fine firearms that gives me so much pleasure. Am I a dieing breed?
William Rogers.........

You might be if you keep collecting firearms!
He who lives by the sword...................

__________________
Deltacom ~ Absit Iniuria Verbis ~

Good lord can't a guy share a passion without having someone that does not even know him make a STUPID remark.

Drive on william buy more MB's and guns, whatever makes you feel good. Personally I am not much of a collector but I have a gun for each of my (passions).

Bennelli Super Black Eagle 12ga (birds turkeys ect.)

Custom 22-250 - A custom built gun with Walther barrel H&R precision stock built on a Weatherby action for woodchucks. It turned out that I loved the gun so much (.28 groups @ 300 yds) that I use the trophy bonded bear claw and shoot big game with it.

Custom 25-06 an exact match to my 22-250

Custom muzzleloader

A few other 22's and shot guns.

If somebody does not like guns and would like to insinuate that we are going to die because we have guns you need not to respond.

Your remarks by contrast are very wise. Tell this to the parents of kids murdered by guns at school.

This is a free country and opinions need not be subject to your approval.

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Deltacom ~ Absit Iniuria Verbis ~

Obviously, the propaganda fed to you by your government in London in regards to events that happen in the US is severely mis-satated.

Yes, innocent people do accidentally get hurt and even killed here on occasion by uneducated and irresponsible gun owners. Statistically, these events pale in comparison to deaths caused by cars, doctors, diseases, etc.

Frankly, I for one am not interested in being forced into a lifestyle similar to your country. An unarmed populace has no recourse if the wrong individual manages to make it into a position of power. WWII is a fine example of what can happen when the citizens of a country become unarmed peasants.

If you don't like how we live here in the US, that is fine. You however do NOT have the right to badmouth how another person choses to live - ESPECIALLY when you don't live here.

"Obviously, the propaganda fed to you by your government in London in regards to events that happen in the US is severely mis-satated."

Thank you for your comments. I do appreciate your elucidation and your politeness, but I ought to point out they are slightly top-heavy with assumptions.
I happen to be an American living in London a great deal of my time and I do not feed on government propaganda, USA's or UK's.

"Yes, innocent people do accidentally get hurt and even killed here on occasion by uneducated and irresponsible gun owners. Statistically, these events pale in comparison to deaths caused by cars, doctors, diseases, etc."

I have great difficulty in coming to terms with the notion that human lives are mere statistics.

"Frankly, I for one am not interested in being forced into a lifestyle similar to your country. An unarmed populace has no recourse if the wrong individual manages to make it into a position of power. WWII is a fine example of what can happen when the citizens of a country become unarmed peasants."

Part of the answers are given above. I am sure you have convincing historical reasons for your views and would hope you allow me to have mine, at least to the extent of expressing them.

"If you don't like how we live here in the US, that is fine. You however do NOT have the right to badmouth how another person choses to live - ESPECIALLY when you don't live here."

Perhaps a re-read of the statement would obviate the notion of badmouth, for far from it was the intended meaning. It would also apply to car drivers, parachute jumping and most things we do, where a risk is inherent.

Thanks once again for your comments.

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Deltacom ~ Absit Iniuria Verbis ~

http://www.newsmax.com/showinside.shtml?a=2002/9/6/152858

I too love collecting firearms, specifically antique weapons, i.e., 19th century and earlier. As I am not a hunter, I have no modern issue and as the weapons i have are over 100 years old, even under very strict Canadian firearm registration law, the guns are non-restricted (but still registerred).

I have a trusty 1860 Lee-Enfield (British Army issue) and an interesting copy of that gun, a French "Zulu" shotgun with mahogany stock and brass fittings as well as assorted muzzle loaders in average condition. At an antique auction, i scored an oak spinning wheel, which really makes a great combo with the muzzle loaders, sort of a fronteir dual motive of home and the hunt.

I am also very interested in civil war material, but am worried still about cross-border hassles. It would make an interesting business venture to set up an antique gun shop in Canadian centres that imports civil war memorabilia (thus removing the cross border hassles) where their antiquity make registration easy and even liberal minded people have few beefs against historical items. Iveoften wondered that if the british were able to supply lots of these breach-loading enfields to the confederacy , what would history make of it (I am no certainly no expert).

regarding the guns, pro or con thread inthis topic, camille paglia once commented that its no accident the most innovative and entrepreneurial nation on the earth has a gun in every home. A generality to be sure, but to this i would add: stick to your guns.

...by the level of rudeness and narrow-mindedness (not even sure if that is a word) shown by some board members.

DeltaCom simply made an innocent remark and you guys are ready to lynch him. His remark is based upon basic Christian teachings..."he who lives by the sword dies by the sword." So what is so wrong with Delta's opinion that he should be so castigated?

DeltaCom is entitled to his opinion and whether we agree or disagree with him we do not have the right to be rude. We can disagree and debate him all we want, but we have no right to be rude. We especially do not need to come up with pithy little remarks like "if you don't like it here go home" or whatever. You all assumed that he is British, an assumption that proved to be wrong (what is that saying about not making assumptions?) Even if he was British we have no right to be rude and it only makes us look stupid and provincial when we do.

England happens to be our most loyal ally, in ALL things. There is a lot that we Americans owe to the British (as there is a lot that they owe to us). The British support us and have stood shoulder to shoulder with us, especially in our fight against terrorism. While France, Russia and even Germany (egads! the land of Mercedes!!!) are kicking us in the teeth England and the British people stand fast by us. Let's be a little bit more tolerant and understanding of others, especially our true allies.

And for the record, I am one conservative Republican who happens to favor gun control. I happen to know first hand the carnage that guns can wreak and, except for hunting guns or other sports weapons, there is absolutely no need for the kind of weaponry avialable out there. Just ask any police officer, or prosecutor, in any major U.S. city.

Deltacom...keep on posting your opinions.

__________________
Current Benzes

1989 300TE "Alice"
1990 300CE "Sam Spade"
1991 300CE "Beowulf" RIP (06.1991 - 10.10.2007)
1998 E320 "Orson"
2002 C320 Wagon "Molly Fox"

Res non semper sunt quae esse videntur

My Gallery

Not in this weather!

We live at the end of a dead end road on a small farm surounded by hundred's of thousand of acres of National Forest and BLM lands.
Not only do I hunt and am an avid target shooter but we loose livestock every year to coyotes and cougar.
Recently an elderly gentleman nearby (a non gun owner)let two people in his house to use his phone and was killed by them for his kindness.we are 65 miles from the sherrifs office......
I rest my case your Honor.............
William Rogers........ Deadwood OR.
P.S. if I spelled dieing wrong I did just redie the seats in my 500 SE.........

You might be if you keep collecting firearms!
He who lives by the sword...................




DeltaCom simply made an innocent remark and you guys are ready to lynch him. His remark is based upon basic Christian teachings..."he who lives by the sword dies by the sword." So what is so wrong with Delta's opinion that he should be so castigated?

Thats not innocent! I am really really done with this forum! But I will respond when anybody starts to get fried even if I disagree with their idea liberal, conservitive, anarchist I will be there for you. Ban me gag me whatever I will return.

Sorry BENZ-LGB, but I must diagree. Look at Deltacom's statement again:

You might be if you keep collecting firearms!
He who lives by the sword...................

It is a plainly judgemental remark, and yes, I was immediately angered by it. I do not have any regrets for my comments. Regardless of where he lived prior, he lives in London, England now. So long as it is his choice to live there, that is up to him. I personally don't care about where he lives, or quite honestly, what his personal opinion is regarding gun ownership. I can personally come up with at least a dozen different things "wrong" with Britan in my opinion. I, however, do NOT pass judgement on those who choose to live there, nor do I pass judgement on the lifestyle that the said individual chooses to live while there. As far as I'm concerned, it isn't really any of my buisness how another person lives, so long as they do not force their lifestyle upon me.

This is why I am offended by his remarks. He blatantly passed judgement for the legal lifestyle of another individual living in another country. Now Deltacom claims that he wasn't doing so. Well, I sure don't see any other interpretation for his statement. As far as I'm concerned, he stepped over the line and disrespected another person. From what I've seen in response by others, I'm apparently not alone in that opinion.

Frankly, I've always enjoyed this board partially for the large variety of people that visit and post here, and personally don't wish to have this develop into some sort of flame war. Nor am I here to try to convert others to my own political views.

I do not think it rude to present arguments and counter arguments in a debate. I would however, in this case of gun control wonder if there is a difference between logical argumentation and being moved to consol, where some members may have lost loved ones due to guns. In those cases, one cannot further argue but offer sympathy and condolence out of respect for those victims of violence. Therefore, it can no longer be debated. Yet,if a victim were to use their grief within the debate, we have a problem: how can one argue logically with an emotion that begets our sorrow and so too would it place the opposite viewpoint into an indefensible position of being crass, unfeeling and shameful.

But isnt that also the danger... that we have also changed the rules of debate where appeal to a higher reason is trumped by an emotional appeal. For example, one could speculate that America was partly to blame for 911, appealing to the shame of poverty worldwide. yet only reason and argumentation could demonstrate the true motives of the terrorist., yet if one agues this, they become the supporters of world poverty because an emotional argument serves as its basis . Or in another case, that revenge for 911 serves as a basis for war with saddam where critics are labelled as unpatriotic. How can you discuss these things when we are moved to consol or to be united against tyranny etc. Please, these are just examples and not my view of these complex problems.

Emotion is not enough and logic and reasoning cannot stand alone and we must act with our heads and our hearts. If one wishes to share their grief, I am moved to consolation and if it is indeed shameful to collect guns, i will no longer collect them. I have ensured that these guns I have are not a threat to the public even if stolen and therefore my concsience is clear.

I hope it's not me TX Bill! I thought you said our debate was nothing personal? I was OK with that. If it was personal then don't say it wasn't. I did take it kinda personal at first about the price of my car, especially when you said in so many words I was showing off like your aunt or something. That to me was as candid as Delta's remark to William when he doesn't even know him that well. But anyway, I am over it now. I typically don't hold grudges. But considering the diversity of this forum, we will prob all benefit from one another more if:

#1 People don't automatically make assumptions about one another just because of a "local" stereotype or "o" I have seen that one before kind of thinking. It pisses people off.

#2 Be open to some of the other person's points and if they make sense to you that you at least acknowledge it. Why? You can't see facial expressions through the type (80% of the message sometimes, really!)

Even though I respect your knowledge and the fact that you are the moderator TX Bill, you kinda threw these 2 rules of engagement out the window. I mean, you guys seemed to just be trying to win a debate rather than listen to any of my logic.

Even in debating, I try to see the other persons viewpoint. I guess this is what rubbed me the wrong way about that thread. It's when someone totally closes their mind to even listening to the other side and makes false assumptions that I don't understand.

Delta, your values are admirable but your candor and assumptive remarks are probably unwelcome by some of the most tolerant souls. TX Bill made a mistake in assuming I was a show off or something and compared me to his relative. I did not like being categorized this way and felt it was unfounded. I am sure William felt similar when you were essentially making him look like a violent person with that "live by the sword" remark. I have to admit, he handled it quite well though.

O' good. You had me worried TX Bill. O yea, I am inserting my foot in mouth now (Although, I think those rules of engagement do tend to work out positively..)I never do understand when people see diversity as a bad thing. I see it as a great way to learn and grow.