So let me get this straight, your saying it is ok for Bush to invade Iraq becaus Clinton was going to do it? And now that the war is a screwed up stinking mess, its ok because of Clinton?

I don't follow the reasoning here. Mr. Bush got us into this war. Before he did he stated he would use war as a last resort. He said he would work with the UN. Before the ink was dry on the congressional resolution, he invaded. When it became apparent the UN was not going to give him a resolution, he told them to go to hell. Yeah, real Clintonesque. The only thing Clintonesque was the major screwing all of us got so Iraq could be safe for oil companies to do business in. By the way, I was actually alive during the Clinton administration. I don't remember any great drum beat for war out of him. It's pretty intellectually dishonest to pull a bunch of political rhetoric quotes out to say their was one when anybody alive and not in a coma at the time knew that wasn't the case.

Telling the UN to go to Hell is one of the few redeeming qualities of Dubbya, and we all know how much I hate to defend Bush. Its about time someone told the UN that they have no jurisdiction over what we do, and we only ask as a courtesy, and to act diplomatic.



Personally, I dont post here much in the political threads because the signal to noise ratio is so low. And there are days when I mistake it for DU...

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http://comp.uark.edu/~dmgill/signature.jpg

With the report saying that the intelligence was false and overblown (see CNN and NYTimes) can Iraqis sue?
I mean we have families that are sueing the Saudis because of 9/11 right, so do the Iraqis have a case?
I'm just wondering......

Also its great we told the UN to stick it but shouldn't we have have done it with better information and intelligence instead of the crap we fed them. Now we look like idiots.

You neglect the facts. We have a veto over anything the UN does, in the security council. They have no "jurisdiction" over us. We can't force them to do anything either. It is a body that requires wide spread agreement among the great powers in order to act. Its not perfect, but its what we have. If we had listened to their objections about our invasion of Iraq, we would not be in the mess we are in today.

Most the anti-UN stuff I here seems based in some kind of urban legend stuff

Yes they do. I am telling you man, this war is headed for a war crimes tribunal. We have invaded a country the way Hitler invaded Poland, and with about as much reason. Under international law, we murdered these people.

And this just in:


no WMD in Iraq?????????

Wonder how much we (taxpayers) paid for this investigation. Heck, they could have called me and I would have told them the same thing for free.

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Jim

It's an interesting dynamic. The "host" is removed from the equation and people are free to bring supporting facts. That is revolutionary. I am interested in what impact it will have. MOst Mass media academics say AM radio brought in the Republicans in a big way in 1992. The Internet may do the same thing for the Democrats in 2004. Bush gets hammered anywhere where the facts can be examined. Check out some other forums. Heck the other day I was one called "Conservative Rant Forum" (how appropriate a name) and he was getting hammered there by lefties and a few righties. He still does well in the AM radio arena, where each participant is limited to a few sentences and is interrrupted or hung up if he crosses the party line. I think thinking people have left that media Potemkin village tho, when I listen now the intellectual level of the average caller has sunk to the pits.

That report,by a Senate committee dominated by the Republicans, is going to get hammered. They are going to attempt to blame the CIA for Iraq. I don't think the press is going to roll over for it this time.It left out anything damning to the president, did not allow the democrats to file a Minority Report, and has stated they will release their findings on whether the Bush admisatration had pressured the CIA to reach these conclusion "after the election". Wouldn't that seem to be an intergral part of answering the question why intelligence failed? What a bunch of disinformation.

In the interest of being intellectually honest, I can guarantee you that I will still be complaining. I just hope I won't have as much to complain about.

Actually, narwhal is in a moral conundrum. He is complaining about complainers, which makes him one. he'll be doing it after Nov as well.

Naw. What burns my ass is that no one knows "the facts", and won't for years. But yet everyone here seems to know what isn't known, and makes judgements based on these "known" unknown facts.:p

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past MB rides:
'68 220D
'68 220D(another one)
'67 230
'84 SD
Current rides:
'06 Lexus RX330
'93 Ford F-250
'96 Corvette
'99 Polaris 700 RMK sled
2011 Polaris Assault
'86 Yamaha TT350(good 'ol thumper)

...high five Rick! I fact-checked your post and found some possible errors, but to be on the safe side I think I'll wait a couple of years before I let you know about them.

.....

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2011 Prius

...I'll be all grown up by then, at which point you'll have to refer to me as Ira Zwei-Horn...or Drei-Horn if you count that little growth [whispers] "down there".

yeah, we should all be quie twhile the government decides it all for us. We shouldn't be making informed choices in a democracy, we just don't know the "secrets". Sounds like a bunch of fascist bull$hit to me.