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Low engine oil pressure
Not to beat this topic to death, but I have read repeatedly that low pressure readings from oil pressure gauge is often a fault with the gauge itself. In my case in particular, I had the reading checked out and I was not so lucky.
When my car heats up to operating temp ~82-85 deg C the oil pressure readings on the instrument cluster are zero. Performance of the engine declines, too. I do love the car, so that's why I've come as far as I have. I Just had new crankshaft bearings installed. I also installed a new oil pump. Almost no change from previous symptoms, only a slight improvement. My mechanic seems to be baffled, he suggested replacing the timing chain tensioner along with 'some other things', as it might be a source of internal oil pressure loss/leakage. Okay I said, but I want a second opinion. I'm over my head here... four questions for the pro's. 1.Is this engine 'toast'? 2.Where are the areas that might be causing low oil pressure readings or internal leakage of oil? 3.What seems to be the most 'economically sound' next step? 4.What layeth on the road ahead? I'm here to learn. Thanks...
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1992 300E (275,000mi) (SOLD) 1999 Honda Accord EX (sold) 2005 Honda Accord V6 Hybrid |
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Ouch!!
I assume by checked out, you mean with a mechanical gauge right on the block?? Sometimes the senders are at fault, or so I've read. Three basic possibilities: the pump isn't pumping, there's a blockage before the pressure sender (and therefore everything else) or there's an internal leak large enough to prevent pressure from building up. In my experience with other engines, I've found the connecting rod beaings to be a more likely suspect for excess wear than the crank main bearings. Can we assume those were looked at and deemed Ok when the crank bearings were checked? Clean out the oil passages in the block? Filter not plugged AND the correct type? Take off the filter & crank (not run) the engine, does oil make it that far? Oil pickup connected to the pump correctly? Oil pickup screen not plugged? Pressure relief valve not stuck open? Pull off the valve cover & see if there's oil flowing up there. A stupid silly question but so basic it's worth looking at: there's oil in the sump and the drain plug didn't fall out? Best of luck,
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Norm in NJ Next oil change at 230,000miles |
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I'm no pro, and I assume your mechanic has access to the same manuals I do.
The pressure relief valve is in the oil pump, so presumably it was replaced when the new oil pump went in? The oil flow is straight to the oil pressure sender in the filter housing via a galley - it is conceivable (barely) that the galley could be plugged or cracked and causing reduced pressure at the sender. Flow to the guage could also be blocked. Beyond that I think the only place that would drive the pressure to zero would be the main bearings. And if that was happening I would expect some noise. No oil stream to the cam lobes would confirm it.
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Chuck Taylor Falls Church VA '66 200, '66 230SL, '96 SL500. Sold: '81 380SL, '86 300E, '72 250C, '95 C220, 3 '84 280SL's '90 420SEL, '72 280SE, '73 280C, '78 280SE, '70 280SL, '77 450SL, '85 380SL, '87 560SL, '85 380SL, '72 350SL, '96 S500 Coupe |
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Oil pressure good when cold engine...
Thanks for your reply, Norm
It's only a problem as the oil heats up and becomes thinner. Quote:
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Not sure it's blockage because this only happens with hot engine (temp > 82degC) Quote:
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Thanks again for relating your experience, which I lack... by the way the car runs like a champ on the open road. Just get stuck in traffic and all these symptoms become evident.
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1992 300E (275,000mi) (SOLD) 1999 Honda Accord EX (sold) 2005 Honda Accord V6 Hybrid |
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Oil Pressure Relief Valve
Thanks Ctaylor..
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1992 300E (275,000mi) (SOLD) 1999 Honda Accord EX (sold) 2005 Honda Accord V6 Hybrid |
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LEADFOOT,
The oil pressure relief valve is intergraded in the oil pump according to the manual. The minimum allowable oil pressure is 0.3 bar (4.4 psi) at idle and should be at least 3 bar (43.5 psi) at 3000 rpm (1000-1500 rpm is the norm). I think your sensor is out of spec. If your mechanic measured 8 psi when testing the oil pressure, the gauge on the dash should have registered 0.5 bar. What weight oil are you using? Chris Last edited by MB_FanAddict; 09-30-2004 at 05:03 PM. |
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20w-50
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It is 20W-50, purposely used a heavy weight. It makes sense if the sending unit is calibrated for another range of oil pressure it will read incorrectly. thanks, Preston Worsham I printed out some pages from the CD and will attempt to remove the valve cover this weekend... and check oil circulation.
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1992 300E (275,000mi) (SOLD) 1999 Honda Accord EX (sold) 2005 Honda Accord V6 Hybrid |
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by the way the car runs like a champ on the open road.
________________________________________________________________ I don't know if this will make you feel any better...but many years ago when I was in high school I had a '41 Ford with the V-8 flathead engine that had an absolutley zero oil pressure reading after the engine warmed up. I drove that car thousands of miles and th engine never missed a beat. I am sure the low pressure was because the main bearings and the rest of the engine were very high mileage and worn...but as I said, the engine ran fine and was still going strong when I sold the car a couple of years later.
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1986 560 SEL (159K miles) |
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Put a new sender on it. Cured my problem.
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95 SL500 Smoke Silver, Parchment 64K 07 E350 4matic Station Wagon White 34K 02 E320 4Matic Silver/grey 80K 05 F150 Silver 44K |
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M103 engine
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Thanks again to all and God bless. This forum is the best!!!! Preston Worsham
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1992 300E (275,000mi) (SOLD) 1999 Honda Accord EX (sold) 2005 Honda Accord V6 Hybrid |
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Out of curiousity, did your latest attempt fix the low pressure 'hot oil' problem?
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_____________________________ 1994 e500 (black-040) 88K miles 1992 400e 89K miles 1998 320 ML 71K miles 1991 300e 4matic 210K miles (recently Goodwill'd) 1969 Datsun 2000 Roadster 1969 Datsun 240z (#105) 1972 Datsun 240z |
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Meanwhile, I verified that oil is circulating to the top end after driving on the hiway for a while. I also know that the sending unit is working correctly. I'll let you know what I find out. Thanks....
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1992 300E (275,000mi) (SOLD) 1999 Honda Accord EX (sold) 2005 Honda Accord V6 Hybrid |
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Update to previous post...
The car has a new timing chain, guide rail, and tensioner. The symptoms are the same with respect to oil pressure when hot. So, new bearings rear and front seals, oil pump.... and a couple thousand dollars did not "fix" the symptom on the dashboard gauge.
I think it runs much better than before but the oil pressure still goes to zero at low rpm like once it gets hot like in heavy traffic, then it's like an old diesel with respect to the of sound of knocking and lower HP. Could it be something simple like the oil filler cap? Maybe the valve guides need replacement? What should I try next? Any expert opinions what would it be better to let it go or keep trying to fix this?
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1992 300E (275,000mi) (SOLD) 1999 Honda Accord EX (sold) 2005 Honda Accord V6 Hybrid |
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Quote:
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Norm in NJ Next oil change at 230,000miles |
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Somewhere, something is not right. Forget the sending unit, if it was faulty, pressure would be good and you'd not hear that knocking. There is indeed no pressure. With new bottom end bearings and a new oil pump, you might want to be in the face of your mechanic and ask why there is no oil pressure. Pick up installed wrong? Pump faulty?
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John Shellenberg 1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif |
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