Need advice or therapy!!



Bought a pristine 82 240D last week. No rust, no water in floorwells. Only 150,000 miles. Paint is great. Interior is like new. Paid only $2450 for car. Boy was I excited. This couldn't be true!! Took car to indy to get get tune up.(usual valve adjustment, change oil, air, fuel filters etc.) Asked mechanic to check front end because the car had steering wheel play, and drifted all over road when driving. Also thought I needed rotors and brake pads. Well, when he took tires off to check front end he found that I basically needed to replace entire front end suspension. Lower ball joints, ($77)lower control arm bushings, ($74)Front left and right control arms,($208) left and right tie rods, ($78)center link,($81) idler arm bushing,($95)
steering shock, ($49.50)alignment incl., front shocks,($170) front brake pads,($48) front rotors,($98.90)front wheel bearings,($162) front calipers,($520 ouch!)front hoses. ($75)Rear brake pads, ($22.50)rear rotors, ($105.36)rear brake shoes.($25)Total parts= $1889.26. Total labor= $1540@70hr. Grand total=$3523.73w/tax. Now I have to spend $3500.00 on a $2,450 car. Guys please tell me what you think. I love this car, but I feel like this is kinda steep. Any advice will be appreciated. Is it worth it? My indy said that if I went to the dealership the price would have been closer to $6,000, because the labor would have been $110 hr. If I get all this work done, I will feel like I had a brand new car. Realistically, I will have a total of $6000 in the car plus the $500 I spent for the tune up.I should never have to worry about front end problems for a while. Please give me your honest opinions. The car is probably worth the investment, but the $6,000 is not what I had in mind at the time of purchase. Thanks in advance. Sorry the post is so long, but I needed a shoulder to cry on.

Get another opinion on the work needed for the steering, there are lesser costing items including steering couplers etc. Now is a great time, before having the work done, to learn everything you can about your car. Do not have work,done that you cannot go into the shop and verify with the mechanic based on your knowledge, so learn Get the mercedes CD with shop documentation on it, see ebay. Get all references for your car that can help you. Before putting major money into the car for the front end, first have the car FULLY checked over by a mechanic. If there is a lot of other work to do on the car, it may not be worth doing any. Or, for work you can do, this may be the beginning of your apprentiship. In my subjective opinion, most people cannot afford to own these old cars over time without a fantastic and honest local mechanic (hard to find) or some decent level of DIY skills. And in the future, you should have the car checked out by a mechanic before you buy it.

Thanks ericgr. I do plan to get a second opinion. I was wondering which of these fixes are a must. Which are putting me in danger driving the car. I know the ball joints are a must. I saw the play in them. The steering box was adjusted by the indy and it helped a lot. The car doesn't seem to drift as bad. Do you think that I can do the ball joints, rotors, and pads before going any further just to see how it helps.

Well, you can find all those parts online for a hell of a lot cheaper I would think. Ball Joints on my 190E were only like 30 bucks a piece and each steering arm with tie-rods are only 20 bucks a piece with the center being 30! Those 3 pieces you could do yourself as well then get it aligned afterward to get them set properly. The tie-rods are a bit harder to do yourelf but they can be done. Same with the idler arm bushing. As for the shocks and struts, it took me an hour to do the shocks and an hour to do the struts myself. If they are not coil overs they are pretty easy to do. Anyway, I would definetely get a second opinion on if the control arms are even needed. When mine wandered it was the ball joints and the idler arm bushing. Yeah the control arm bushing look like they will need to be replaced sometime, but they are not making any noises and most likely have nothing to do with the way your car is handling. As for the brakes it cost me like 50-60 in parts for the pads all around and took me an hour to do all four. If you have some mechanical abilities you may want to try to do some stuff yourself to save on the labor costs. And never buy parts from the dealer if you can find them elsewhere. Most of the time the parts I get online are half what the local stealership charges.

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~Jamie
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2003 Pewter C230K SC C1, C4, C5, C7, heated seats, CD Changer, and 6 Speed. ContiExtremes on the C7's.

1986 190E 2.3 Black, Auto, Mods to come soon.....

I did the same thing on my 84 300SD. I did however take it to several people for several opinions. I would suggest taking it to an MB garage and "pay for" an inspection. I am fortunate that I have a mechanic that allows me to buy my own parts an he puts them on for labor only. Some of the things you listed can be done on your own, the steering shock is a $20 item and takes 5 minutes to R/R. I am wondering why you would need front bearings, these rarely need replaced unless totaly ignored during PM checks.
Do you have PO maintenace records. These are a must when you go to buy these old cars.
Calipers ? are they not releasing? This too is unusual. The rest of the items seem logical. Front end work requires specialized tools and knowledge. If one of the front springs gets away from the frame it will kill anything in its path.
Good Luck

He is really sticking it to you on the calipers and other brake parts! Try to get him to order from Fastlane or other places or do them yourself.

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Chuck Taylor
Falls Church VA
'66 200, '66 230SL, '96 SL500. Sold: '81 380SL, '86 300E, '72 250C, '95 C220, 3 '84 280SL's '90 420SEL, '72 280SE, '73 280C, '78 280SE, '70 280SL, '77 450SL, '85 380SL, '87 560SL, '85 380SL, '72 350SL, '96 S500 Coupe

I'm curious to hear the story of how:

-you found the car
-the owner described the car (documentation of repair history)
-how the price was negociated

dealer or individual?

I also would say that it's quite possible that you get all these things done so the car drives straight, then learn that you need a valve job, or tranny service, or radiator, or timing chain, or some other item that will make you want to drive the car right through that guy's living room and leave it hanging out into the flower bed.

Maybe the car was painted at Maaco, and will look good for 6 months, then take a turn southward.

If it was a dealer, I'd be out there in front of his shop with a boycott sign until he made good on his sale. If it was an individual, it's more difficult.

I've got alot of money in my '89, but it was over time, and with a mechanic that I really trust, and knows how not to over fix something.

My advice is to evaluate your situation carefully. A commercial mechanic's eyes will light up like Las Vegas Strip when he tallies the work to be done on your car (especially w/ Christmas around the corner). Think about how much you will have invested in the car, and how much more (and there will be more - most likely) that you are willing to absorb. It might just be easier to sell the car to somebody on this board, who knows what the issues are, and likes to fix cars like this on the weekend.

Something tells me this won't happen to you again.

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Bernard
Dallas, TX
89' 300SEL 228K
01' E320 48k

I feel your pain!!!

In this May, I got sucked into a 1991 560 SEL with almost perfect interior and put down $5K cash for it. The very first thing I noticed when I drove the car home was that the central locking system did not work.

This is now mid Oct and I have only driven this car for about 2000 miles. The biggest problem has been this high idle. beside that, there are just small things every other day. Thing like radio, ball joint, temperature sensor, A/c compressor, etc. I am now at least $1200 in the whole and gor probably another k to go if I have to do the timing chain etc.

I think you have gotten many valuable suggestions here. The first thing I would do is to get a good evaluation of the other part of the car. If the problem is limited to the front end, get it fixed. However, order the parts yourself on line and do the easy things yourself. This will save about 1/2 of the cost. Had I let dealer do all teh repairs on my 560, it would be at least $3K by now.

I am a Ph.D. chemist and have very bad hands on skills on cars. Since I got this money pit, I have learnt some simple things such as using a DMM. Believe me, all you need is some guts and proper tools.

Best of luck

Just talked to Phil at fastlane and told him about my indy. prices and dilema. He told me "don't do it." The prices are waaay too high. We came up with this: Total price of parts= $923.22 shipped. Indy wanted $1889.26. Indy quoted 22hrs. labor@ 70hr w/parts = $3523. Phil quoted 8-12hrs. labor@ 70hr w/parts= approx. $1625 total. Looks like my indy was getting some of his parts from Phil and charging me retail. I just ordered all of the previously mentioned parts from Phil and they are due to arrive on Friday Oct.22. I have still yet to find the right indy. to do the work though. I will be saving almost 2 grand by using this site. I want to personally thank all who have helped me. (too many to name you all. It gives me such a pleasure to know that there are still some good honest people out here. I will keep you all informed. Phil did give me some shops from this site that I need to call today. Special thanks to Jake 1222. He knows a indy. that is about 2 hrs. from me. I will be calling him today. Thanks to all and I will keep you all posted.

My only concern is that, in the end, you may not need all of those parts. Instead you may need, for example, a rebuilt power steering box and a few of others. I have a mechanic where I live who just loves to sell parts because they can mark them up and then include the labor. Nonetheless, you can probably return the ones you don't need and if you get a good mechanic he'll probably tell you what you need to do/not need to do anyway. It sounds like you have a good referral.

But in the end, I have this advice to you in lieu of therapy. And yes, all of this can drive you to the need of a therapist. You need to learn everything you can and get in there with the car. With the new mechanic, you need to be there when the car is checked over and the wheels are pulled. Know what you are looking at. Don't rely on any one person to fully trust in this process. You need to own a good part of the knowledge here and use resources like this great website to help guide you. Take everything with a grain of salt and learn, learn, learn what you can about your car, trends with the car, and real costs involved.

You can replace well over half of the parts you ordered with 2 hands and simple tools, simply by removing and replacing....Shocks, idler arm, tie rod ends, calipers, pads, rotors and more can be done with your 2 hands and no fancy tools...when installing any type of tie rod end just measure overall length, write it down and replace with new part adjusting to your measurement...First I would adjust the steering box...you will need a allen wrench and either a socket or open/box end wrench...loosen the nut and adjust the allen head counterclockwise(this tightens the steering) about 2 turns and then tighten nut and test drive...if necessary adjust clockwise to loosen or counterclockwise to tighten...Jim

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James A. Harris

Isn't it fair to say you need special tools to do the tie rod ends? When I did them on my C230 I needed even "specialer" tools than what I had. My tie rod end puller was too big for my dainty C. And I had a surprising amount of trouble finding one that would work. (I could have attacked it with the pickle fork but thought I might break something else in the process)

Mike

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1998 C230 330,000 miles (currently dead of second failed EIS, yours will fail too, turning you into the dealer's personal human cash machine)
1988 F150 144,000 miles (leaks all the colors of the rainbow)
Previous stars: 1981 Brava 210,000 miles, 1978 128 150,000 miles, 1977 B200 Van 175,000 miles, 1972 Vega (great, if rusty, car), 1972 Celica, 1986.5 Supra

..and it's the most important - a good shop manual, preferably an original MB for the chassis and engine. Try EBay. I'd hold out for a good paper copy, but you can get by with the CD version for example http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7927931500&category=34227
Sorry to hear you've already ordered parts, but hopefully on a car that old, it probably needs most of them anyway. But it requires no mechanical skill to read up on how the various components work, where located, how to test for wear, etc. You can then make your own judgements as to what you can do and what you need to hire out. I realize not everyone has the tools, skills, desire, and workspace, let alone time, to do it all themselves.....but if you are on this forum, and now have the car, you're real close to getting out there and doing it anyway.

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1986 560SL
2002 Toyota Camry
1993 Lexus

All I needed was a few wrenches! Nothing special about the W201 tie-rods. Same as any other car. Now the W203, I have not even looked at since it is under warranty and I do not really care until it needs something fixed that is not covered.

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~Jamie
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2003 Pewter C230K SC C1, C4, C5, C7, heated seats, CD Changer, and 6 Speed. ContiExtremes on the C7's.

1986 190E 2.3 Black, Auto, Mods to come soon.....

You guys are great. I do plan to be "there" when the work is being done. I have already learned a lot about the car just talking to Phil at fastlane and other mechanics. I would like the shop manual, but I have never dealt with ebay before, and not sure how to bid on the manual. If someone could bid and get it for me I will be glad to pay whatever the price is.