I have done the method of opening the bleeder screw a little to push the piston back. After that, the pad went in easily. Then I bleed the system the old fashion way with an assistant to depress the brake pedal while I intermittently open the bleeder screw. You can also buy one way speeder bleeder screw and this will make it a one man job. I did this on my 911 Porsche. Brakes great.

John

Read the post again. You can loosen the bleeder screw as much as you like. It can't leak air if there is only fluid in the line, now, can it? Do I have to demonstrate it for you?

Try pumping your brake pedal doing a proper brake bleed job......on the return stroke the is a slight suction in the brake lines......you will draw air.

__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
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Section 609 MVAC Certified
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"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

You will not draw air.

The hose on the bleeder extends into the fluid in the jar. It is, effectively, a sealed system, from the surface of the fluid in the jar, all the way back to the reservoir in the m/c.

I guess that I will have to show you.

Brian....thats NOT where the air gets sucked from...it gets sucked front the threaded area of the bleeder nipple. take off the hose clamp on yout fule line at the lift pump and tell me you don't suck air under hard acceleration. Same principle....its easier to draw air there than pull the weight of the brake fluid in the hose you have attached to the nipple. WHen its loose those threads are not air tight.

__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

I suppose that this would be possible. However, in 20 years of doing it, I never had that problem. If this situation were to occur, you could never get the air out of the system by using this procedure.

I have never failed to get all the air out of the system with this procedure, AFAIK.

I do suppose that the two man procedure would be required, after this procedure, to completely prove my case. If the two man procedure netted no additional air, after this procedure, then I would have proof beyond any doubt.

I do have the suspicion that the m/c would rather draw fluid from the reservoir, which is sitting directly above the m/c rather than draw fluid from a cylinder that is sitting 15 inches below the m/c. It doesn't take much to prevent air from entering such a system.

Well if you were under the car doing the 2 man method with you closing the bleeder before the second person lifts their foot from the brake pedal you would see this...its not a huge amount of air but its enough you will see more than the occaisonal bubble come through it. and they do rise back into the calliper quite quickly if you stop. I tend to be pretty anal when I see air coming out of the lines when I bleed..even a few bubbles.

I've had one of those one man bleeders....but I still enlist my wife to man the brake pedal when I am under the car...I get better results. True you way does work...and its safe, but some air does get in. The way I described gets even that last few bubbles out.

__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Well, if I can find someone to help me, I'll confirm or disprove your theory of "some air does get in". If any air does get in, I can't feel it in the pedal. But, the pedal is subjective...............so I can't rule it out, positively.

I'd second the advice about using the dremel to cut a slot into what is left of the bleeder nipple, and then using a flat-head screwdriver to loosen it. Works like a charm.

__________________
Chris
2007 E550 4Matic - 61,000 Km - Iridium Silver, black leather, Sport package, Premium 2 package
2007 GL450 4Matic - 62,000 Km - Obsidian Black Metallic, black leather, all options
1998 E430 - sold
1989 300E - 333,000 Km - sold
1977 280E - sold
1971 250 - retired

"And a frign hat. They gave me a hat at the annual benefits meeting. I said. how does this benefit me. I dont have anything from the company.. So they gave me a hat." - TheDon

Its not enough that you may feel it....I admit that....its not going to be a saftey issue either way. Sort of like is the glass half empty or half full?

THe ammount you will see will vary in porportion to how loose that screw is....

__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

When I put a vac. bleeder on the bleeder valve, I sometimes see a continuos flow of small bubbles that get sucked in thru the threads of the bleeder nipple. If the area around the bleeder nipple is nice and dirty w/ years of road grime, it acts as a seal and sometimes will prevent air from being sucked thru the threads.

Now a one man job w/ a hose from the open bleeder valve into a jar emersed in brake fluid might get the job done but I wouldn't do so on my car.


My .02

Don

I typically leave the screw 3/4 turn loose. So, this may not be sufficient to draw air back in. But, like I said, I don't have the proof.

3/4 of a turn after you crack it open is sufficient .....like I said the further open the more air can get in on the return stroke...its not much..but you will get a bubble or two that seems to always show up. Not enough to impact actual funtion but I like ZERO bubbles when I bleed.

__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Liquid Wrench will work wonders if applied a day or two ahead of time before WHATEVER removal method you choose to use.

someone said
it is not possible to bleed brakes incorrectly...

well it is... i did a brake job the other day and i did not have a C clamp... so
i turned the nipple and pushed the piston back.. of course it does not just go back easily so you have to push and push and push.... and struggle...

After i finished i got in the car and the pedal went to the floor... So I am telling you air really does get in... So for the next 30 minutes i had my daughter sit in the car and push on and push off the brakes... I would turn the nipple wait for the stream... Let the bubbles out...After 2 or 3 Bleeds its was all gone....


Now, some one said the brake fluid does not circulate... this is wrong as well.
I have had a nipple problem on the front and I have bleed the back and got the air out.... You will find that you will have good brakes by bleeding the front left and right rear...

Often I stop bleeding when the pedal feels right... So sometimes that means i only bleed one wheel...