I missed this post somehow. The HHT (or other digital scanner that talks to MB OBD-1 systems) will do 100 times more than than a simple LED blink code reader to help point to the 'culprit'. And it does provide less-ambiguous codes than the analog blinks, although for some it may still not pinpoint them. However there are usually several codes, and by interpreting all the info provided, you can usually figure out what's going on.

I still have not found a scanner that is as comprehensive as the HHT. The MT-2500 does pretty well for the cost, but it has a number of annoying bugs in the software. I'm not sure if the CS2000 or AST Retriever were any better. The cheap Chinese SDS clones also have software & communication issues. The optimum tool is of course the genuine SDS, which is not affordable for a DIY user. And as Steve said, it emulates the original HHT for the early cars.

__________________
Dave
Boise, ID
Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!

Dave, Can you clear up a question please? My 124 came with the first generation 8-pin diagnostic plug, push button and red LED (Calif version). I understand how the push button/LED works and what the separate pulses indicate. My question--does the early 8-pin connector also allow testing individual pins to get additional DTC as the later 16-pin and 38-pin ones do? If yes, can you direct me to the code key, b/c I've never seen anything but the codes referring to the LED pulses (in 1988, that was limited to 6 or 7 items). I hope my question is clear. Thanks.

__________________
1988 California version 260E (W124)
Anthracite Grey/Palomino
Owned since new and still going strong and smooth
MBCA member

Past Mercedes-Benz:
1986 190E Baby Benz
1967 230 Inherited from mom when she downsized
1959 220S Introduced me to the joys of keepin' 'em goin'

There are only 10 kinds of people in the world--those who understand binary and those who don't

Cal, the answer is a conditional "yes"... meaning that yes, there are additional codes available at the 8-pin diagnostic port, however this will depend on model year. Early 124's have almost nothing available except very basic diagnostics from only the LED (check engine light). Later 124's will have codes available for the climate control (pin 7), SRS (pin 6), and things like ASD and 4Matic (pin 5). Pin 4 will have the diesel codes (I think), pin 3 should have the CIS codes. (?) But that's about it from the 8-pin port. It depends what model you have, and what year, etc.

Click here for a generic code list. You'll need to look at your 8-pin port and see if any of those sockets have contacts or not... if they do, you may be able to pull more codes with an LED blinker box. However I don't believe any of the 8-pin (CIS) models will have any live data available via digital scanner. The models with live data available will either have 16-pin or 38-pin diagnostic socket.

Someone looking particularly for W124 HFM/PMS Engine management scanner can try http://www.peachparts.com//shopforum/showthread.php?t=236925, It is pretty much equivalent to functionality of DAS with live data for these models. Even Activation's like turning off particular cylinder works. I found it pretty handy in diagnosing idle issue.

Will the MT2500 work for POST 2003 Mercedes? If not, is there one that will for similar money? I would like to find one that can read the widest year ranges, but to include the 2004's V12's that I have.

I have the Chinese Carsoft clone and adapters, but I'll be damned if I can figure it out when I connected it to the 1994 S600 Coupe.

__________________
Mercedes Fleet:
2004 CL600 Designo Espresso SPORT
2004 S600 Designo Espresso SPORT/Lorinser Pkg.
1999 S320
1988 300TE
1972 280SEL 4.5
Diesel Fleet:
2014 GL350 Blutec
1987 300SDL Blk/Blk 4 place seating #18 head
1987 300SDL Smk Slv/Burgangy #17 head
1986 300SDL Blk Pearl/Palomino #14 head w/ 280K
1984 Lincoln Mark VII Fact BMW Turbo Diesel

I don't know if it's already been mentioned, but www.autoenginuity.com.

Has bi-directional support for most makes, however that usually has to be purchased seperately. Supports Mode 6 data, OBD readiness testing, etc... Plus, it's USB and runs on a PC so you can log data for as long as you like.

__________________
A.S.E Tech A1,A6,A7,A8 & MVAC 609 + EPA 608

Unless stated otherwise, any question I ask is about my greymarket 1985 380SEL.

Looks nice, but appears to have limited W140 applications :-(

__________________
Mercedes Fleet:
2004 CL600 Designo Espresso SPORT
2004 S600 Designo Espresso SPORT/Lorinser Pkg.
1999 S320
1988 300TE
1972 280SEL 4.5
Diesel Fleet:
2014 GL350 Blutec
1987 300SDL Blk/Blk 4 place seating #18 head
1987 300SDL Smk Slv/Burgangy #17 head
1986 300SDL Blk Pearl/Palomino #14 head w/ 280K
1984 Lincoln Mark VII Fact BMW Turbo Diesel

For any MB's newer than 2003, you need software loaded on the programmable VCI cartridge for MT2500, available for MB's up through at least 2006. However, I have never used it, and after my experience with the older Snap-On software, I would definitely obtain a unit to test on your car BEFORE buying anything. Maybe see if your local Snap-On rep can demo it on your car. The newer software is also available for the Modis, Solus, and other newfangled units. It's difficult (and expensive) to locate the VCI with MB software on eBay, and it's outrageously expensive to just buy the newest version from the Snap-On truck.

Note: If your 2004 V12's were basically the same as the 2003 model, then the 2003 software may work fine - just tell the scanner it's a 2003 model instead. If your 2004 had a totally new engine (or engine management system) compared to 2003, forget it. I don't know about about those years to say for sure.



At the risk of repeating myself ad nauseum, the Carsoft junk DOES NOT WORK with either LH or HFM injection, and your 1994 S600 has LH injection. At best, Carsoft will show you some analog blink codes, maybe. I do know the MT2500 setup will work pretty well on your 1994 S600 with LH injection, at least with the "legacy" 2003 software.

Your best bet is likely the Chinese SDS clones... rumor is that they work surprising well, and can be had for <$1k on eBay. These will work better than Carsoft for newer cars, and better than the MT2500 for older cars. I haven't yet bought one, but I'm planning on it eventually...

Thanks for your input Dave.

I don't know of any difference mechanically, but I know the stereo/sound/navigation system is different, and sure if that effects any tests, and I like you am thinking I could list them as 2003's.


Don't really need one for my 2004's since they are still under factory warranty for the next 3 and 4 years respectively, but would be fun to play with and make them do the "rodeo" suspension trick.

More needing to help diagnose the 94 S600 Coupe issues.

I think I will look and see if I can find some good buys on an MT2500 and then get the MB accessories for it.

__________________
Mercedes Fleet:
2004 CL600 Designo Espresso SPORT
2004 S600 Designo Espresso SPORT/Lorinser Pkg.
1999 S320
1988 300TE
1972 280SEL 4.5
Diesel Fleet:
2014 GL350 Blutec
1987 300SDL Blk/Blk 4 place seating #18 head
1987 300SDL Smk Slv/Burgangy #17 head
1986 300SDL Blk Pearl/Palomino #14 head w/ 280K
1984 Lincoln Mark VII Fact BMW Turbo Diesel

Yes, it has very limited Euro applications, but it would be super for your ford & toyota (and it's relatively inexpensive for what it can do).

Unfortunately, anything Euro is going to be expensive, and be very make specific if it's going to provide any real diagnostic info or control.

__________________
A.S.E Tech A1,A6,A7,A8 & MVAC 609 + EPA 608

Unless stated otherwise, any question I ask is about my greymarket 1985 380SEL.

Remember, the Snap-On won't test everything... only most major systems. For the 94 S600, it should talk to: LH, BM, EZL, E-GAS, DM, and possibly SRS. It probably won't talk to the climate control system, even though it's supposed to. And it won't do anything for things like the convenience system, alarm system, PML, etc. Most of those are analog only and a plain blink code reader will suffice.



Buy the MT2500 brick & main cable ($100-$150), and 2003 "red" software cartridge (another $100-$150) on eBay. Buy the 38-pin cable and personality keys new from the Snap-On website... should be approximately $45 for the cable and $25 for each of the 4 necessary keys. The whole setup should be under $500. You don't need the ODB-II cable, or the single-pin cable. You will still need an LED blinker box to read analog codes from the other systems though. Check out this document, although it's geared towards the M119 versions, the only real difference is that the M120 version has twin EZL's and LH modules. Some assorted Snap-On info is located here.

Bought a an MT2500 off ebay this morning for a decent price, but of course zero MB accessories, but it does have OBDII & GM-1 adaptors & MT25001401 Primary Asian Import (EOBD-II Thru 2001, Generic OBD-II Thru 2003), but they said it was actually a GM primary cartridge (guess I will find out when I get it) including shipped for $100. There are no manuals and they didn't know what version it was either, but seemed a decent price to at least give it a try.

I have 38 pin adapter from the Carsoft stuff I bought, will that connect to the Snap on?

If not I know I need the MB-1 for the 1994 Do I need the MB-2 for the 2004's (2003)?

Key's S-20, s-21, s-33 & s-34 correct? Do those also cover the 2003/4's?

Mercedes Primary Cartridge MT25001103


Does anyone (Dave?) know what this is for, and if I need it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003-Mercedes-Update-Primary-Snap-On-Scanner-MT2500_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3ca6c9ce63QQitemZ260496281187QQptZMotorsQ5fAutomotiveQ5fTools#ht_1 066wt_941

Thx

__________________
Mercedes Fleet:
2004 CL600 Designo Espresso SPORT
2004 S600 Designo Espresso SPORT/Lorinser Pkg.
1999 S320
1988 300TE
1972 280SEL 4.5
Diesel Fleet:
2014 GL350 Blutec
1987 300SDL Blk/Blk 4 place seating #18 head
1987 300SDL Smk Slv/Burgangy #17 head
1986 300SDL Blk Pearl/Palomino #14 head w/ 280K
1984 Lincoln Mark VII Fact BMW Turbo Diesel

Cool!



Nope, not even remotely similar.



No, the MB-2A is for the older 8- and 16-pin ports used on the 6-cyl W124 and W201. For the newer stuff (2004, etc) you need the DL-16 OBD-II European adapter. It is NOT the same as the generic OBD-II adapter you are getting with the kit... the Euro adapter uses different keys.



Those will work with the 1994 S600. For the newer cars, I think you need S-17 as well (for the DL-16 cable), but I'm not certain.



Those are EPROM chips. Plug them into a "red" cartridge with clear housing (like the Asian 2001 cartridge) and it will change it into the MB 2003 cartridge. These are bootleg copies, not original Snap-On chips, but the real McCoy is almost impossible to locate these days. The complete cartridge (like this one) is also not original, this seller just takes other/cheaper cartridges and pops in the MB bootleg chips to "make" the MB cartridge, then slaps a copy of the label on the front so it looks real. They work fine, but don't include the printed manuals you'd get with the genuine cartridge kit.

BTW, the scanner will tell you to use key S-20 to commincate with the W140 Basic Module (BM), this is a typo... you'll need S-34. There isn't much to play with in the BM anyway. The main good stuff is in the LH and E-GAS systems, which both work fine on the MT2500.

Yes, I found this out. Still not getting the scanner to communicate with the transmission. ASR light STILL illuminated.

I ordered the S-17 key as the scanner is asking for it, what exactly does this key allow the cartridge to scan?

__________________
Mercedes Fleet:
2004 CL600 Designo Espresso SPORT
2004 S600 Designo Espresso SPORT/Lorinser Pkg.
1999 S320
1988 300TE
1972 280SEL 4.5
Diesel Fleet:
2014 GL350 Blutec
1987 300SDL Blk/Blk 4 place seating #18 head
1987 300SDL Smk Slv/Burgangy #17 head
1986 300SDL Blk Pearl/Palomino #14 head w/ 280K
1984 Lincoln Mark VII Fact BMW Turbo Diesel

The scanner asks for different keys based on the vehicle & system, it connects the scanner to differnt pins at the diagnostic port. On which car are you trying to communicate with the transmission? The 1994 S600 has no EGS module, only the five-speed auto trannies have electronic controls.