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  #1  
Old 01-12-2013, 06:36 PM
CJTucker
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 52
1992 300E 251K miles shaking after 65 mph

Where to start? I am bummed. I am in the middle of nowhere and when I ran my 300E 4 matic earlier this evening I noticed two things different. First, I always let it warm up on start-up for at least 3 minutes. This way shifting is smooth. I have no problems with shifting or even bumps in RPMs. I did notice however that (1) when pulling out from park and turning there is now a semi-high pitched whining (when turning the steering wheel). That noise quickly goes away; (2) it seemed to be fine but I did notice a slight shaking (not fast pulse but slow pulse and heavy) but that was minor. Then, because I was concerned, I brought it out to the interstate and ran it up to about 60 - 65 mphs. At some point it began shaking rather violently (very disconcerting as I have 200 miles to drive tomorrow just to get anywhere near a mechanic I trust and home!). It does not seem to do this at 60 mph. So, I am hoping I will be able to drive the 200 miles without problems at 60 mph just to get home.

Two other things I notice was a very slight elevation in temp. just above 80c, but only until I got rolling around a bit (so this may be my mind playing with my emotions because I fear I am losing my baby now) and that my oil pressure dropped one notch, so where it was just below 3, which has always been normal, it was at 2. I was low on oil, another usual occurrence after about 2 and a half full tanks, and so I put the regular 2 quarts in. Same pressure issue, same vibration after 65.

I just bought a 1992 400E with 150K for $250 that needs about $3500 of work, but does not leak oil and has no engine issues. You can bet after I have had this 300E that I will invest the money in that car because, well, words cannot express the reliability of these vehicles.

But, I digress. How in the hell (or will I) get home? Can this be fixed with fuel additive, how could it be anything bad (i.e., catastrophic) if the car runs normal up to 65 mph (and I mean really normal speed, shift, smooth, with the exception of the new oil pressure drop)?

If anyone at all could give me ANY advice whatsoever, I feel I am in a real bind right now and need to know if I should risk driving this car 200 miles tomorrow at 60 mph or if I will even make it. I also don't know if I will get a notice of any message responses on my personal e-mail so I will try and stay on here. Thanks to anyone who has any ideas whatsoever, in advance. Thanks, CJTucker


Last edited by cjtucker; 01-12-2013 at 06:48 PM. Reason: correcting grammar sentence
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  #2  
Old 01-12-2013, 07:54 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 760
Welcome to the forum. I've never worked on a 300E, but I suspect the whining noise is likely your power steering pump because you said it makes the noise when you are turning the wheel. If it is low on power steering fluid it will make this noise.

I think you may have a different issue going on with the vibration at speed. Check for the obvious first, like make sure all your lug nuts are secured and tires are not damaged. It could be just a damaged tire that is vibrating at certain speeds.

As for the oil consumption, if the engine isn't leaking, then it is likely burning it. You should check for oil leaks and, if none, maybe do a compression test.

Seeing the oil pressure drop down to 2 is probably normal. In the summer in Arizona, my oil pressure on my E420 goes down to 1-bar at idle. Also, 80C is the normal operating temp for my E420 and I would guess it is normal for the 300E as well. Maybe someone who has some experience with the 300E can chime in. I hope you make it home okay. I would consider driving in the right lane with flashers on if you are that concerned. Can you position the car between the street and a curb to crawl under and take a better look?
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1993 400E, 256,000 miles (totaled)
1994 E420, 200,000+ miles
1995 E420, 201,000 miles
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  #3  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:26 PM
CJTucker
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 52
Thank You

First, let me just thank you for replying. Sometimes it is good to just talk... All mushiness aside, I will check the power steering fluid. But you are right, that is not the core issue with the vibration.

I will also check the tires. I do need new ones. And, the lug nuts could be loose. The thing of it is I drove up the 200 miles on Thursday a.m. and at a usual highway speed of between 70 and 80 mph there were no problems. Now, there will definitely be a problem past 60 even though up to that point, little or no difference in operation (engine, rpm, and handling). It does have an oil leak, no doubt about that unfortunately. But again, it is about 2 quarts of synthetic (ouch) every two and a half tanks of gas.

Definitely will stay in the right lane and with flashers, since I have to travel below 60.

As for putting it up on a curve, I could do that but would have zero idea of what to look for, much less at...

In any event, thanks for replying. I am resolved to turning my attention immediately to the 400E I have sitting at the garage (which, incidentally does not leak oil and has year old Michelins - great tires).

Thanks again! CJTucker
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  #4  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:58 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: War Eagle Arkansas
Posts: 212
As Emery said, check the tires for damage, proper pressure (try inflating to max press. stated on tire), also check the lugs and also check for mud inside one or more of the wheels. If it doesnt begin shaking until highway speed, its not the engine, and its very unlikely its the transmission. Most likely wheels/tires, secondly something with driveshaft/flex couplings.

Whine is unrelated as you noted it steering, check belt and fluid. Oil pressure possibly too low viscosity, check against owners manual recommendation. Oil consumption, start with leaks, then diagnose from there. Valve guide seals are a distinct possibility if no external leaks are found. Good way to check guide seals, find a long grade, or take foot off gas and let it slow down to a stop from high speed. If you then step on the gas and see smoke out the back, its likely guide seals.
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  #5  
Old 01-12-2013, 09:11 PM
CJTucker
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 52
Thanks Ozarkdude. More good and soothing advice, certainly! We've had some weird weather here, first lots of snow, muck and chunk ice (maybe it is in fact a chunk of frozen mud / ice in the inside of the wheel), then a significant ice storm, rain, and then a 55 degree day today with mud and melting going on.

To the technical aspects of the problem: As I mentioned, and as you point out, it almost certainly does not seem to be the engine. Sure, the car's motor, with the mileage, has some rough spots, especially now on startup as I am told the "lifters" are starting to fail. Again, I am a newbie, green and wet behind the ears to the technical world and I will freely and humbly admit I have no idea what "lifters" are. But, that said, once the car warms up for five minutes and the rpm's at idle are what appears to be approximately b/n 5 and 10 (app. 750), the car pulls out and shifts through its gears as if it was brand new. I went out earlier and took it out again but did not go above 50. Almost no shaking. However, there is some of what I would call the same exact shaking, but at a very subtle measure. Hardly noticeable and if I did not drive this car everyday and listen to it and feel it intently every second it is running on the road, I would not notice this. Again, no doubt about it at 60 and greater though. Man, feels like if I were to continue going faster it would bounce off the road. It is strange though, because for all that vibration, it does not seem the steering or the actual ability to handle it is compromised, just that this vibration is critical to the infrastructure of the vehicle. I am inclined to unfortunately resign myself to the "drive shaft" theory, since again, it seems like this vibration (which is very long, as opposed to short, in frequency - if that makes any sense) does not affect the steering, handling, suspension so much as it does just the core (even the frame I would say) of the car itself. Thanks again for responding.
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  #6  
Old 01-12-2013, 09:15 PM
CJTucker
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 52
To Ozarkdude: Thanks, again. You mentioned "flex couplings". What are those? Where are they? What should I be looking for or at if I am inspecting them? I am sorry, but I am new to the technical world, but definitely love this vehicle and appreciate it enough to be willing to learn. I also will need experience to get started fixing up the 400E I purchased. If the problem I am encountering is related to the flex couplings, what does this entail in terms of fixing? Also, how would I know if it was the drive shaft, and why would the drive shaft do this at speeds of 60 or greater but not really below that?

In any event, correct me if I am wrong, but it is probably time at this point (assuming I make it home tomorrow) to turn my attention to the 400E.

Thanks for your patience.
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Last edited by cjtucker; 01-12-2013 at 09:19 PM. Reason: Edit
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  #7  
Old 01-12-2013, 09:19 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: War Eagle Arkansas
Posts: 212
Take the car to a car wash and blast the underside and inside the wheels clean. Wet heavy snow will pack in behind and cause all kinds of vibration issues as will mud, but to an even greater degree as mud is many times heavier. The tires being air filled will absorb some imbalance without pushing it into the car, but vibration will increase linearly with speed. Ill almost bet its snow/ice/crud on the wheels causing the majority of your issue.
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  #8  
Old 01-12-2013, 09:25 PM
CJTucker
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 52
Great Suggestion!

Ozarkdude: Many thanks! I will bring it to the car wash and see if that fixes the problem. I will let you know if this abates the issue, and/or if not, what the problem is if I ever do identify it.
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  #9  
Old 01-12-2013, 11:06 PM
CJTucker
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 52
Problem Potentially Identified

Bottom Line Up Front (BLUF): I believe the problem is a totally bald passenger side rear tire.

Okay, you all can rag on me and give me a hard time. I believe I have identified the problem. Took it out and inspected under carriage, wheel wells, wheels, lug nuts, and tires. Did not see anything remarkable although one of the tires had ever so slight movement in lug nuts when I tightened three out of the five. This was rear driver side tire. However, upon closer inspection of the other rear tire, I found it to be as bald as a baboon's you know what in the middle. My pressure dropped in all four tires, as well, probably as a result of the drastic (30 degree temperature change we experienced in the last 24 to 36 hours). I am hoping that the real issue was / is the balded passenger side rear tire. Although, I am still skeptical since this problem seems to have arisen quite suddenly. In any event, on my way back to where I am staying, after washing it thoroughly (thanks Ozarkdude) and having tightened all the lug nuts on all four tires, I did not experience the earth-shaking, Richter-scale vibration that I had up to approximately 65 mph. that is not to say there is not still an issue as there still seems to be latent, uncharacteristic vibration and I did not open it up on the interstate to beyond 65 as I had done earlier.

The other three tires are fair to good in terms of tread / tread wear, but the one is unacceptably bad. I am thinking to have it changed tomorrow before I get on the road. I will probably buy a Michelin and then use it as a spare, take the other four, 1 year-old Michelins off the 400E and try to keep my 300E operational a little longer.

However, if the problem is still not solved, then I will still be at a loss as to what it could be.

One other clue. I am usually able to put 320 to 330 miles on a tank before the gas light comes on. Tonight the gas light started to flicker at approximately 300 miles! Very unusual; in fact, it never happened before. The car has religiously gotten 20 miles to the gallon in the winter and between 23 and 26 in the summer. When that happened I mentally kicked myself in the rear for not having checked the tire pressure before I drove the 200 mile trip on Thursday up this way. Could the bad tire / low tire pressure really knock off the 20 additional miles I am used to getting on a full tank? Again, if I did not know this car so well, i would not make much out of the 20 mile difference, but the gas light has always been spot on in terms of gallons / miles left. I've driven 50 miles without running out of gas with the light on full-time. After that, I put 17.5 gallons in, which tells me i had about 10 miles or .5 gallons left (again when I was getting a minimum of 20 mpg) 18X20 is 360.

Thanks again to all who replied and made suggestions, especially Ozarkdude.
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  #10  
Old 01-12-2013, 11:06 PM
CJTucker
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 52
Problem Potentially Identified

Bottom Line Up Front (BLUF): I believe the problem is a totally bald passenger side rear tire.

Okay, you all can rag on me and give me a hard time. I believe I have identified the problem. Took it out and inspected under carriage, wheel wells, wheels, lug nuts, and tires. Did not see anything remarkable although one of the tires had ever so slight movement in lug nuts when I tightened three out of the five. This was rear driver side tire. However, upon closer inspection of the other rear tire, I found it to be as bald as a baboon's you know what in the middle. My pressure dropped in all four tires, as well, probably as a result of the drastic (30 degree temperature change we experienced in the last 24 to 36 hours). I am hoping that the real issue was / is the balded passenger side rear tire. Although, I am still skeptical since this problem seems to have arisen quite suddenly. In any event, on my way back to where I am staying, after washing it thoroughly (thanks Ozarkdude) and having tightened all the lug nuts on all four tires, I did not experience the earth-shaking, Richter-scale vibration that I had up to approximately 65 mph. that is not to say there is not still an issue as there still seems to be latent, uncharacteristic vibration and I did not open it up on the interstate to beyond 65 as I had done earlier.

The other three tires are fair to good in terms of tread / tread wear, but the one is unacceptably bad. I am thinking to have it changed tomorrow before I get on the road. I will probably buy a Michelin and then use it as a spare, take the other four, 1 year-old Michelins off the 400E and try to keep my 300E operational a little longer.

However, if the problem is still not solved, then I will still be at a loss as to what it could be.

One other clue. I am usually able to put 320 to 330 miles on a tank before the gas light comes on. Tonight the gas light started to flicker at approximately 300 miles! Very unusual; in fact, it never happened before. The car has religiously gotten 20 miles to the gallon in the winter and between 23 and 26 in the summer. When that happened I mentally kicked myself in the rear for not having checked the tire pressure before I drove the 200 mile trip on Thursday up this way. Could the bad tire / low tire pressure really knock off the 20 additional miles I am used to getting on a full tank? Again, if I did not know this car so well, i would not make much out of the 20 mile difference, but the gas light has always been spot on in terms of gallons / miles left. I've driven 50 miles without running out of gas with the light on full-time. After that, I put 17.5 gallons in, which tells me i had about 10 miles or .5 gallons left (again when I was getting a minimum of 20 mpg) 18X20 is 360.

Thanks again to all who replied and made suggestions, especially Ozarkdude. I believe I just might make it home.
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  #11  
Old 01-15-2013, 04:03 PM
CJTucker
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 52
1992 300E 252K miles (shaking update)

Thanks to everyone responding to the posts, including some responses to another post. I made the 200 mile trip without issue, until I got home.

I believe what happened originally was that the weather which went from rock-solid frozen to complete thaw (lots of snow and mud) and then to rock-solid frozen again created some imbalance in my wheels, particularly the front. I must have had a chunk of something heavy. This created imbalance / vibration which went off the chart at speeds in excess of 60. After washing out and inspecting, I made the trip down. About halfway, I stopped to replace the rear tires (I needed to do this anyway and thought the one rear passenger tire was the cause). Well, after this, I got back on the road. I still noticed unusual but subtle vibration. I ranged from 60 to 80 and the vibration (which could be felt in the steering wheel) was about the same the whole way. Nothing alarming or unmanageable, just...different than before.

Then, I was driving close to the house and hit some bad road a significant bump or pothole. This caused the front end to completely lose it; i felt as if the whole car was going to disintegrate. I was driving at a speed of between 55 and 60 (thankfully). I was able to control the car during this chaos. I put my blinker on, and slowly slowed down and slowly eased off the road. Literally, all items on my front passenger seat flew off. The airbags did not deploy, thankfully, but I can't see why not given the violence of this shaking. Now, here is the weird thing. As I slowed down the car totally stabilized, rolled forward smoothly, and, as I accelerated from not quite stopped position, went on its way without incident. I checked everything out when I got home. My washer fluid reservoir cracked, and leaked, but nothing else. This a.m. I started the car, same as usual, drove away with no issues and made the daily commute. I drove slower than usual (between 60 and 70) and avoided all the bumps (I know every one of them in the 46 mile journey). On smooth pavement there is little to no vibration (in other words sometimes the vibration is there sometimes it is not), but I know this problem can and will happen again.

What on earth was this? I am afraid to drive the car now. I don't want to cause an accident or injure myself or someone else. How could the car run solid and feel fine at once and then do this in a moment's notice, and then go back to normal? I don't know if this can or should be fixed at this point, or if I should start getting the 400E up and running (money wise, I do not want to put money in both cars and the 400E has 100K less miles on it but needs radiator, fan, fan clutch, belt, brakes, and some rotors. $3500 all told).

Thanks, CJTucker

1992 300E (4Matic) 252,000 miles
1992 400E 150,000 miles
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  #12  
Old 01-17-2013, 09:50 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: TX
Posts: 3,978
one of your front tires is messed up along with a very loose wheel bearing - it will make the car feel as if its going to fall to pieces. When I first bought my car it did that.

I had to change the tie rods etc too.
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  #13  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:19 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,272
Violent front end shimmy at highway speed is a classic steering damper failure symptom. It's easy to check and easy to change. Disconnect one end and see if it offers resistance. If not, it's dead and needs to be replaced.

If there is evidence of oil leakage you don't even have to check resisitance. It's dead.

I've had to replace the steering damper on my '88 190E2.6 twice in 25 years and it's only got 82K miles, so it's as much a time function as it is a mileage function.

The steering damper is a high pressure deCarbon design like the suspension shocks. They don't degrade slowly like conventional dampers, but usually fail suddenly.

If the seal develops a leak and the pressure is lost, it's instant damper death and instant shimmy.

Duke

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