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  #1  
Old 06-21-2018, 05:51 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Austin, TX
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'06 E350 wagon turns on/off while driving

The car is a 2006 E350 (non-4matic) station wagon w/ approx. 116,000 miles.

Several times over the last few months, while driving, the car will shut off for a second (literally) while driving. When this happens, all the dash lights illuminate like the key has just been switched on or off and, after a split second, the car continues on as if nothing happened. There is no need to cycle the key, it just turns back on by itself. It has done this on the freeway, on city roads, under acceleration, while coasting--basically under most all normal driving conditions. It has also stalled at a stop light on three occasions during this same time period; during those instances, it requires cycling the key to turn the car back on. Always starts up immediately. Check engine light is not illuminated.

I had an indy look at it and they said, "no codes and we have no idea--dealership time." Called and made an appointment with MB Austin, who are generally very good. They said they scanned for codes and got nothing, checked fuel pressure and found it to be 28, which they characterized as "quite low." I had also mentioned a gas odor after filling up and they found a recall for the tank (which was cracked) which includes the pump and filter, so all was replaced and even diagnostic time was covered. Was very happy about that; in fact, almost every experience I've had with that dealer has been positive. Tech said he felt confident the random cutting out was caused by the failing fuel pump. I was hopeful....but a day after getting it back, it did it again. Drat!

Seems to happen while the engine is up to temp. Car drives very well otherwise. Both batteries replaced within last 9 months. Has happened with both keys. Idle is smooth; maybe a very, very slight fluctuation in drive when stopped. Car always starts right up-no instances of extended cranking, ever. Only other (possibly related?) issue is a very slight pop occasionally from under car. Could be a very faint misfire, maybe. My kids joke there is an elf that lives under the car and knocks once on the underside occasionally to annoy us.

I'm going to check the main battery connections, and the dealer wants me to bring it back on Tuesday. Trying to gather information and curious as to whether anyone here has seen or experienced anything like this. Crankshaft position sensor maybe? Crank position sensor and cam position sensors are original to car. Cam position sensor wiring harnesses were replaced under recall/warranty in 2013...

Thanks for any ideas...

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Christopher
'06 Mercedes E350 station wagon (silver/black)
'85 Mercedes 300D (black pearl/palomino)
'85 Mercedes 300SD (smoke silver/burgundy)
'79 Cadillac Sedan deVille

'85 Mercedes 300D sold back to orig. owner 8-1-06.
'84 Volvo 264GL Diesel, owned 2000-2013
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  #2  
Old 06-21-2018, 06:39 PM
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Does the tach drop to zero when the engine quits?
If so, that would suggest it's ignition, not fuel related.


In reading your post, I'm surprised there isn't a flag when reading the codes. There can be active codes, either a F or f, but the dealer diagnostic should be able to go deeper and check for the history, which can reveal codes not visible when doing a general scan. My Xentry setup gets me access.


It's not unknown in the older cars to have the ignition switch cause this same problem. I wonder.........


Jim
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14 E250 BlueTEC black. 45k miles
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85 300TD 4 spd man, euro bumpers and lights, 15" Pentas dark blue 274k miles
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  #3  
Old 06-21-2018, 08:22 PM
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I'm sure JimFreeh can verify this statement, but doesn't the '06 E350 have the problem plagued M272 engine?

If I'm right, Volvo Diesel you need to google Mercedes Benz M272 Engine.
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  #4  
Old 06-21-2018, 08:47 PM
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Jim, thanks for your input. I wish I could say what happens with the tach but, to be honest, when it happens it's so quick all I really know "for sure" is the dash lights illuminate briefly and the car "bogs down" for a moment. I'll try to see what happens with the tach...although, given the interconnected nature of all the electronic parts of this car, wouldn't an interruption in fuel trigger it to shut down such that the tach would fall to zero? I have to say, I don't recall seeing the tach or speedometer "bounce" back to life, so maybe they don't drop to zero.... I know they do fall to zero when the car has stalled at a light, and a key cycle is needed to restart the car in that instance, but not when it's moving. When it's moving, it starts up again "on its own." I, too, am surprised by the lack of a code. I plan to be more involved with the tech's diagnosis this time around; last time I didn't ask them too many questions since it seemed they had identified the failing fuel pump as the cause.

PARTSHOOT1, thanks for the info. I've had this car since it came off lease. I'm familiar with the issues of the M272, including the balance shaft problem. I have to say that the dealership here in Austin has been exemplary in helping me address issues that have come up in this car, some of the time under warranty or, occasionally, with a portion of the cost to me goodwilled by MB. Aside from an issue with an intake flap failing, requiring replacement of the intake, and a failure of a sensor in the valve body causing the car to sometimes stick in first gear, this thing has been rock solid reliable for my wife and kids. I really don't want to get rid of it. When I got it in '08, I thought it had too many electronic features. Ha! The loaner we had last week was like a computer with wheels.
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Christopher
'06 Mercedes E350 station wagon (silver/black)
'85 Mercedes 300D (black pearl/palomino)
'85 Mercedes 300SD (smoke silver/burgundy)
'79 Cadillac Sedan deVille

'85 Mercedes 300D sold back to orig. owner 8-1-06.
'84 Volvo 264GL Diesel, owned 2000-2013
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  #5  
Old 06-21-2018, 09:13 PM
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I just went to the garage and tightened the cables down on the positive and negative posts of the main battery. Got 3-4 half turns on each, so....
Hey, a guy can dream, right?
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Christopher
'06 Mercedes E350 station wagon (silver/black)
'85 Mercedes 300D (black pearl/palomino)
'85 Mercedes 300SD (smoke silver/burgundy)
'79 Cadillac Sedan deVille

'85 Mercedes 300D sold back to orig. owner 8-1-06.
'84 Volvo 264GL Diesel, owned 2000-2013
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  #6  
Old 06-21-2018, 09:41 PM
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I think ive seen issues with an M.E, ENGINE CONTROL UNIT, failing like that when it gets hot, use a hair dryer get it hot and it may stall,might even be a bulletin for this.
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  #7  
Old 06-22-2018, 12:41 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 201
This is a reach for this intermittent problem but when the ME CU loses the cir 15 key on input the car will shut without leaving a code. Usually the relay in Front Sam will get hot or/or develop crusty contacts
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  #8  
Old 06-22-2018, 01:30 PM
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nulu and Paulwho, thank you. I assume the M.E. ENGINE CONTROL UNIT / ME CU referenced in both posts are the same part.

I may try heating the ECU as nulu suggested and see if it causes the problem to occur. And I will look at the front SAM on the car. Or in all honesty I may just provide this information to the tech at MB Austin on Tuesday. I like this car and the way it drives, but I don't really like working on it very much. "Luckily" my old 300D and Caddy allow me to turn a wrench every once in a while and feel like I know something about cars.

I appreciate everyone's input. If anyone has any other ideas, please let me know. I will post the eventual result when the issue is solved. Even if it involves me buying a new Honda Pilot which is, I'm pretty sure, how my wife would like me to solve the issue.
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Christopher
'06 Mercedes E350 station wagon (silver/black)
'85 Mercedes 300D (black pearl/palomino)
'85 Mercedes 300SD (smoke silver/burgundy)
'79 Cadillac Sedan deVille

'85 Mercedes 300D sold back to orig. owner 8-1-06.
'84 Volvo 264GL Diesel, owned 2000-2013
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  #9  
Old 06-23-2018, 01:19 AM
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Location: los angeles
Posts: 737
Make sure that when the fuel pump was replaced they replaced the fuel pump relay and checked the rear sam for damage to pins of relay contacts of f/p circuit
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  #10  
Old 06-23-2018, 05:57 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hampton Roads, Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nulu View Post
Make sure that when the fuel pump was replaced they replaced the fuel pump relay and checked the rear sam for damage to pins of relay contacts of f/p circuit



Back to my tach question.


When the engine quits, see if the tach is still reading rpms whilst the engine is turning. If the tach immediately flatlines, I'd be suspicious of an ignition problem.


If it's a fuel pump issue, I would expect the tach to continue reading rpms. I'd also wonder why the lights would light up if it's the fuel pump.


The warning lights make me think it's related to the ignition switch, but I'm thinking old school and these W211s are anything but.......


Jim
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14 E250 BlueTEC black. 45k miles
95 E320 Cabriolet Emerald green 66k miles
94 E320 Cabriolet Emerald green 152k miles
85 300TD 4 spd man, euro bumpers and lights, 15" Pentas dark blue 274k miles
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  #11  
Old 06-23-2018, 07:24 PM
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I can finally answer the tach question, because it just did it to me on the way to my daughter’s indoor soccer game. Third start of the day, after an early morning run to the bank and then a mid-day lunch run. Died at exit to neighborhood; started right up after. When merging on freeway, shut off for a second. The tach did NOT drop to zero. In a split second it recovered. Rest of the 11 mile trip was uneventful...
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Christopher
'06 Mercedes E350 station wagon (silver/black)
'85 Mercedes 300D (black pearl/palomino)
'85 Mercedes 300SD (smoke silver/burgundy)
'79 Cadillac Sedan deVille

'85 Mercedes 300D sold back to orig. owner 8-1-06.
'84 Volvo 264GL Diesel, owned 2000-2013
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  #12  
Old 06-24-2018, 12:55 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 236
Just to document:
No issues on way home from soccer game last evening (with the car, anyway; 12 y.o. daughter’s team lost so she had issues...).
This morning started car, drove to store to get the newspaper, drove home. One hour later, went to garage to back car out to wash it. Started it and it caught, them immediately died. Restarted it and it immediately died. Tried again and it started and kept running. Restarted and ran just fine to move into garage after washing.
Weird!
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Christopher
'06 Mercedes E350 station wagon (silver/black)
'85 Mercedes 300D (black pearl/palomino)
'85 Mercedes 300SD (smoke silver/burgundy)
'79 Cadillac Sedan deVille

'85 Mercedes 300D sold back to orig. owner 8-1-06.
'84 Volvo 264GL Diesel, owned 2000-2013
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  #13  
Old 06-30-2018, 03:02 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 236
Resolved (hopefully)

I got the car back from MB Austin yesterday. I know this is a predominately DIY forum; however, I have to say that the dealership really did a great job in keeping me in the loop and in tracking down the problem.

They test drove the car extensively and finally got it to duplicate the odd thing it was doing. The computer showed a code for a faulty crankshaft position sensor as well as several communication failures with the central gateway. They replaced both of these parts and coded the central gateway unit. They then test drove the car for another 75 miles and the problem did not return. No codes returned either.

I have driven it about 50 miles yesterday and today and the issue hasn't recurred. Hopefully it's fixed. I would really like to get a few years more out of the car.

Thank you to everyone who responded with ideas. I appreciate this forum.

-Chris
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Christopher
'06 Mercedes E350 station wagon (silver/black)
'85 Mercedes 300D (black pearl/palomino)
'85 Mercedes 300SD (smoke silver/burgundy)
'79 Cadillac Sedan deVille

'85 Mercedes 300D sold back to orig. owner 8-1-06.
'84 Volvo 264GL Diesel, owned 2000-2013
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  #14  
Old 06-30-2018, 07:28 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Fort Myers, Florida
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I guess I'm to late to the party. I was about to suggest a bad CKP signal. Sometimes it's not even the CKP sensor itself, but a short to ground in either the sensor or module. If there is a short to ground, then there may actually be a signal being sent despite not seeing it. When techs, or DIY'ers, check it they often are using a scale that won't pick it up. If there is a short to ground the signal is there, but just really low voltage due to the short.

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