thump thump thump wont go away no matter what... 1985 190E - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

sbourg · #31 05-29-2003, 06:17 PM

When you say 'all the bushings' I assume you mean more than the spring support arm - not actually an 'A' arm. Some of the links come complete with bushings at both ends, and are not too expensive. Those that need to be pressed can be taken to a repair shop or automotive machine shop. Also check the condition of the rear subframe support bushings.

Steve

xp190 · #32 05-29-2003, 06:47 PM

Hi steve thanx for your input

Eventually I'd like to replace all the bushings to lose the squeaking and steering on both sides, and I was thinking about starting with all the bushings that can be replaced when the spring is compressed, this way I'd get them all on one try and replace any remaining ones after that, so I figured it would be the ones on the A arm, the ones that attach to the rear subframe and the wheel carrier, is this about right? Is there any other ones that would have to be done when the spring is compressed?

xp

md21722 · #33 05-30-2003, 11:03 AM

IF it was MY car I would get a used wheel carrier, bearing, hub flange assembly and replace all the links at the same time. While the wheel carrier is out you can take it to a shop to press in/out the support joint in the bottom of the wheel carrier. In the meantime, I would check the links to see if one is wearing against the subframe. I have seen it one one persons car so bad that one of the links actually wore a HOLE thru the subframe. The rubber bushings in those links wear out with time and climate and both are against you (1985 car & Toronto environ) - you're overdue to replace those parts & its unlikely that ANY are good unless they were previously replaced.

xp190 · #34 05-31-2003, 06:55 PM

My reasoning behind this is that since the thumping is directly related to the speed of the car, it must be a moving part, or rather a part of the drivetrain that rotates.

Right now, the only moving parts that have not been replaced are the wheel bearings and one of the calipers.

Bushings I want to replace, yes I completely agree with that, road noise is there and car steers when I hit a pot hole, BUT, will this fix the problem that got me started on the path to replacing everything???

personally I don't see how, but if someone can show me the way, I'll be on it in the next few days.

btw... how come fastlane does not have the bushings for the A arm??? they do come seperately according to the manual, but I don't see them, so is the dealer my only source? that would suck

xp

md21722 · #35 05-31-2003, 11:12 PM

Its VERY unlikely that replacing bushings will solve your vibration. However, if you are going to replace the wheel carrier, bearing, and hub flange, then you've already disconnected all the links at one side. Its MUCH easier to go ahead replace everything while its apart.

There is no 'A'-arm in the rear suspension. Its a spring link or lower control arm and does not resemble and 'A' shape. The side at the wheel carrier has no bushing. A large bolt goes thru and attaches to the support joint (that's PRESSED into the wheel carrier itself). The tool to replace the bushing in the other end is very expensive and the entire link is ~$60 at the dealer. MANY techs will "never" replace that link because that bushing "never" wears out.

My advise relies on the fact that you have troubleshooted everything else reasonably well. In MY car I have replaced those parts in the rear suspension to cure a thumping and it worked. Upon disassembly I noticed some irregularlity in the bearing.

HTH,

xp190 · #36 06-01-2003, 09:09 AM

hi md, thanx for all the advice, and I apologize if my naming is not up to par, but I'm still learning all the names of the different parts, so please bear with me.

The part you refer to as the lower control arm, the one I thought was the A arm, i think i got that from the service manual, Fastlane has it listed for $232, are you sure this is the right part? If it was $60 I would be more then happy to get a new one, but $232 is a bit steep for a student like me

This is why I'm asking all these questions about replacing the bushings, I guess it would be much easier to just get the whole arm along with all the other parts, but I still have to compress the spring to install the new part, and that's another challange.

Then the wheel carrier is even more expencive but I will call a few junk yards to see if they have anything to offer, I could not identify the part on www.car-part.com so I don't know how much they would as for it.

One day I'll have this problem fixed for sure, but it seems like I'm a long way from that day.

xp

xp190 · #37 06-01-2003, 09:28 AM

MD, I was just looking at the service manual, and the bushing that is between the spring link and the wheel carrier is actually mounted on the wheel carrier.

Now since I have not done this ever, the manual does not mention anywhere that the spring needs to be removed or compresses in order to remove the wheel carrier, is this correct?
If so I should be able to get the wheel carrier off take it to a shop and get the bearing and bushings replaced, and then install it on my own, then repeat the process on the other side.

Does that sound doable?

tia

xp

md21722 · #38 06-01-2003, 07:55 PM

xp190,

I dont' understand why you'd want to replace the wheel bearing if it ain't loose. I'm only suggesting replacing the entire wheel carrier, bearing, and flange as a complete assembly. See if you can find a mechanic with some parts cars. He may have a 190 like your and will remove the wheel carrier. While he's doing that you can have him replace the support joint. The price i defintely in the $60 range (US). $232 would get you the front lower control arm. The part is probably not listed on Fastlane & I dont' suggest you replace it unless the inner bushing at the subframe looks destroyed - most times it looks fine. Because of the positioning of the rear spring (mostly straight up and down) it can be done without the spring compressor itself. The rear springs don't compress all the way with a spring compressor anyway. They are nothing like the fronts which can be a bear.

HTH,

Martineau Gauda · #39 06-01-2003, 08:51 PM

Hi,

When I have a problem like that I find that the Chassis Ear remote multiple sound pick-up system works great in locating noises when the car is moving. This system is not that expensive and can save many hours of diagnostic work.

Good luck

xp190 · #40 06-02-2003, 10:04 AM

Martineau Gauda I was thinking about investing in such a device, do you have a link for it maybe? I'd love to check it out.

MD, I know a few yards that would have the wheel carrier, it's just that I was thinking if I do get it, and I probably will, it will be much easier to swap the bearings and flanges when it's out, I can take it to a machien shop and then the bearings pressed for very little money, as well as the bushings because yes, the ones on my wheel carrier are dead as you called them, there is no rubber left. But then again, if I can remove my wheel carrier, which technically should be fine because it itself does not come into contact with any moving parts and is a single big piece, maybe it would be cheaper to do that procedure on it instead, I was also thinking about getting at least one wheel carrier cover since the old one is rusted so much that the e-brake shoes are no longer in the right position. This is of course as long as my wheel carriers are fine, the remaining struts can be replaced one by one whenever I get them, then once everything is put together, get the wheels alligned and it should be good as new.

To me it sounds like you are suggesting the same thing I have in mind, just with a new wheel carrier, is that about right?

xp

Martineau Gauda · #41 06-02-2003, 10:16 AM

Tool warehouse has the units for about $100.00

Try this site

http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/STE-6600.html

I have had good luck with using the system on my Rolls Royce. Complex suspension and very, very hard to locate sounds on the Rolls without using the remote sound detection system.

Large trucks used a simular system for many years to locate problems with bearings and other components.

Good luck

Martineau Gauda · #42 06-02-2003, 10:24 AM

Addendum:

The pick-up is so sensitive that you can actually hear the internal sound of bearings and absolutely rule out non problem components. It also works in the engine compartment to identify problems with bearings and other noises. Just connect the pickup clip to the component and listen through the headphones. The large headphones do an excellent job of blocking out other noises.

md21722 · #43 06-02-2003, 10:24 AM

I am saying that you can replace the bearing and you may still have the problem. The problem may be in the wheel carrier and hub flange itself. In my opinion, if you can't feel the play in the wheel bearing then its not the problem. I am sounding like a broken record.

Have fun,

xp190 · #44 06-05-2003, 06:25 PM

I'm sorry md, but I fail to see the reasoning behind your suggestion. I mentioned early that the noise is directly assosiated with the speed of the wheels, now the bearing sits in the wheel carrier, but it does not move there, it's stationary, the bearing itself will not wear out the wheel carrier in any way unless forced in incorrectly, so I think it would be a safe bet to say that the wheel carrier is fine, it might need some new bushings which I already ordered.

I do agree with you that something might be wrong with the wheel flange, I don't see the part on Fastlane, but perhaps I can replace it also. This would give me a brand new drivetrain starting from the transmission all the way to the wheels.
I'm not familiar with the part though, I'll do a search to see what I can find.

I also had a suggestion that it could be the seal of the bearing going bad, or already gone, the bearing still shows no play, but it could have started wearing out, however, this is usually a constant noise, not one that comes and goes, but there could be exceptions....

I think I will invest in the Chassis ear suggested by Martineau Gauda, it sounds like a great device to solve these kind of problems, and this problem has many mechanics stumped. Just about as soon as I say "Yes, the wheels and half shafts have been replaced."

xp

xp190 · #45 06-05-2003, 07:35 PM

thanx for the support hassman

Tires are two completely different sets, it made no difference at all. I bought a new set of rims and tires for winter, in case you want to blame the rims

it's not it.

Here is my explanation of how it sounds. Imagine something turning, at one point of each turn, something makes a noise, this noise is related to the speed of the wheels, as in for every turn of the wheel, I don't know which one, I hear a "wha" kind of a sound. You start hearing it at 40kmph and up but it is always there, you just have to listen in. At highway speeds it sounds like something is hitting, almost, since it goes by so quick, I had a whole bunch of people in the back, everyone says sometihng different when it comes to point of origin of this noise. I removed the rear seat, so it was like riding in the trunk. On the outside, you don't hear it at all, just on the inside, my guess it that it gets canceled out by the air passing through the rims or just the wheels spinning, I'll try again though.

Now you know what was replaced.
1 caliper, both wheels, both rotors, both halfshafts, both flex discs, the rear one twice, driveshaft support bearing, differential. Everything was cleaned and examined to death. NOTHING seems to be worn out, well one bushing on the spring link, this is in the mail, and will be replaced. The only things I have not touched are the wheel bearings and whatver gets pressed into them, but this is my next attempt. I'm also considering buying a chassis ear to see if it gets me any closer to figuring this out.

The sound does not change under load, or with no load at all, I had a BIG 3 ton hydraulic jack in the trunk and it made no idfference, oh yes along with both my parents.

So you see, this has me really stumped, and that sound drives me crazy, yet I have to drive the car, and I drive it in case whatever makes that noise falls apart and ends my suffering....

TIA

xp