OK I apologize if I sounded a bit harsh. I suppose that the problem I am having is that not only with MB automobiles, but with pretty much all aspects of life, we have to put up with those who constantly complain and are critical of everything. Yes you are correct in saying that we have the right to voice our "concerns" of what we percieve as lagging quality and the future of the MB brand as well as others. But it is like looking at an art masterpiece hanging on the wall of a fine gallery and instead of enjoying it as fine art, you go looking for the imperfections and pointing them out to the others around you therefore degrading their enjoyment of the artwork. As for my starting my own web site saying nothing but positive about MB's. C'mon, do you really think that would work? Not in this day and society. We as americans have made a lifestyle of complaining about pretty much everything. I'll just have to live with it, like it or not.

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83 W123 240D
76 300D, "Lil Yellow Car"
1978 Cessna 172N 180 HP Mod

"If life ain't fun, I'm not interested"

The important things are those that you learn after you know it all.
Chip Foose

Build a better mousetrap and you will REALLY infuriate corporate america.

"97 C280. 200K miles. Never been to a dealer for any fixes. New tires, batt, and plugs(Champion) oil/filters every 5K miles. Never any trouble. Car runs like new. These are basically maintenace free vehicles as far as I can tell. My only worry: when they start mixing Chrysler parts with Mercedes. Then I will change brands. Everyone, except the CEO of Mercedes, knows that Chrysler makes junk. Not unlike Studebaker and Packard in the past.

Hawk180

Don't apologize too much.
Sometimes I think we should add some more topics to this forum.
Some that come to mind are:

1. Let's bash Mercedes.
2. I'd rather have a ..............., fill in the blanks ( Lexus, BMW, Hyundai, Datsun, etc. ).
3. J.D. Power ( whoever the hell he is ) says.............
4. My M-B dealer is a rip-off.
Etc. etc. etc..

You get my drift?

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2007 C 230 Sport.

Because I have replied to this thread I keep getting reminded of its continued presence.

I normally don't get involved with opinion based discussions. If I were to get into this type of discussion with any enthusiasm it would be with people who's experience gave their opinions true value.

To listen to a bunch of car owners beat up a manufacturer based upon their anecdotal small sample evidence only gives comedic entertainment value.

I read all the "Potter" books and Trolls can be entertaining for a brief time.

My life has been the independent pursuit of technical superiority over the best man can imagine in an automobile. My shop works regularly on ten car lines, MB being the largest volume. I see no indication that any other car line will be cutting into MBs lead in basic technology.

Its my idea that mB should develope a PC interface and drop all those gimicy Jap electronics (navigation etc). They are always out of date in a year anyway. I'm convinced that all MB's JD Power's problems are from people who can't do anything without a cell phone in their ear.

It is really a shame that such credence is given to popularity polls where cell phone workmanship is part of a study. All these discussions contribute greatly to the car I wish MB wouldn't build. The public changes what they get by such polls and they haven't a clue what is underneath!

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Steve Brotherton
Continental Imports
Gainesville FL
Bosch Master, ASE Master, L1
33 years MB technician

As long as their harmonic balancers keep falling apart, I find it hard to accept that MB leads in technology. I wish they would get back to their old values of performance, quality, and style, and leave the nav systems and gadgets to the Japanese.

As long as MB's quality stays where it is, and Chris Bangle keeps mangling BMW styling, I think VW can sell a lot of Phaetons and W8 Passats!

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Lenny

There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games. --Ernest Hemingway

'10 GL550/'04 BMW 545/'99 BMW 323/'98 ML320/'87 VW GTI (race)

I read of the problems people claim to be having with their MB's and I have to wonder about driving styles, expectations and other things that contribute to dissatisfaction with thier cars. I now own three MB's from the old to the new. I have really had no problems to speak of. On my '03, I picked it up after it had sat on the lot for almost 10 months. The only problem I found was the brakes chattered a little because of some light corrosion on the rotors. The dealer quickly rectified this by replacing all four rotors, the pads and the calipers. Other than that it has been perfect so far. The '89 I bought when it had 83,000 miles. At over 100K I replaced a water pump. Other than that, no problems. I don't thrash my cars or drive them like they are stolen. I keep them clean and serviced. They really don't ask for much other than good quality gasoline or diesel and some routine maintenance and cleaning. I have yet to find a a late model american car that has exhibited the combination of reliability, comfort and performance I have enjoyed by the premier German brand. And I have never test driven a Japanese car that I would consider spending my money on.

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83 W123 240D
76 300D, "Lil Yellow Car"
1978 Cessna 172N 180 HP Mod

"If life ain't fun, I'm not interested"

The important things are those that you learn after you know it all.
Chip Foose

Build a better mousetrap and you will REALLY infuriate corporate america.

Hawk,
If you're suggesting that all the owners in this forum who basically post here because they "do" have a problem otherwise they wouldn't post a problem here are those who as per your post "thrash their cars or drive their cars as stolen" then.... I don't really know how to respond to that. I'd rather just let someone else address this one ...
as for your comment on keeping the car clean. I really don't see how a car with shiny paint and armorall would end up any better than one that is dusty from a technical stand point. not that I think that any of this forum member would keep their cars dirty.
As for keeping the cars serviced, well I think that's what this forum is all about. to have their cars running in top notch condition, which is a lot more than the mere 'service' that you're referring to.
And last but not least, if we own the car, then we certainly have earned the right to complain about it as well. after all we are the owners. if we pay for it we can talk about it too. which ever way we like. as for liking the car or not. ofcourse we like it, that's why we keep it. I love mine, but ! I hate it everytime it ends up having problems after probelms. ! simple as that...

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Whether you think you can or cannot, Either way you're right!. by Henry Ford.

I guess I'm also one of the few that hasn't had any trouble with my MB. In nearly two years and 10K miles the items I've had to change outside of routing maintenance include.

1. Oil Cap
2. Radiator Cap
3. Oil Breather Hoses ($30)
4. V-Belt
5. Radiator

Keep in mind many of these items are due to age not poor construction. The other point I'll make is that I don't drive the car often but when I do I really drive it. I can't count on both hands how many times I've done canyon runs with my car. And those canyons are typically very tight switchbacks. The car has not loosened up the least bit and performs exceptionally.

Now I've also owned Honda's and VW's in the past and I would put money on it that If I drove those cars the same way I drive this they would last about 60K for the VW and 75K for the Honda before the chassis felt loose and the suspension needed an overhaul. My MB has 64K miles at the moment.

Those of you that have purchased a used MB and have had major trouble, maybe it's because you didn't do your homework before you bought the car and are now suffering the consequences. An older MB is only as good as the maintenance done by the previous owner and you can expect to spend more to get the car in tip top shape. Sorry to be blunt about it but it's the truth.

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Afshin

Current:
02 C32 AMG

Previous:
92 500E
84 190E 2.3 5 Spd

Interesting thread ..

Just a couple of thoughts/observations ..

1) Other than MB what other brands are owners
actively seeking out +20 year old examples to
use as daily drivers ?? And are these other brands
any cheaper to repair/restore or more or less reliable
than the comparable MB's ??

2) The 'consensus' on this forum appears ( to me ) to be
that the late 1970's to 1985 model years for both gas and
diesel versions are worth acquiring and making road worthy
once again ..

3) In my area ( SW Ct ) labor at any car repair facility
will run you $70-90/hr .. so unless you are a DIYer ..
expect to pay the big bucks for any dealer/indy repairs ..
The only relative cost of ownership 'winners' are the dedicated
DIYers and the few indies that will allow the customer to
provide the parts ..

I've owned the 124s and 210s in both gas and diesel versions ..
They've all been used when purchased and expensive to service
but have all proven reliable and I've never been stranded due to
mechanical failure yet A few 'beefs' .. design
a functional window regulator .. and if you own a late model
diesel 96-99 .. remove and clean the intake manifold on a
regular basis

I haven't done it yet .. but at some point I'd like to
find a well cared for 1983-1985 SD ( see the 126 owner's
thread ) and for future reference keep your eyes open
and wallets ready for the 1999 E320s ..
there's a lot of them and I'm speculating that they will
prove reliable used car buys as the years roll on and
the prices come down ..

Jim in Ct ..

1996 e300d
1999 e320

Benz300, Vraonsky: In general, MB are known for requiring very little maintence.Thats why I purchased mine over 6 yrs ago. Of course the "quality thing " is a good thing too. But in general I have kown people that have had minor problems similar to a Ford or Chevy. I really think you are asking for trouble when you start taking your auto to the dealer for "their"sevice'". We have never done that. Tire, Batt. & oil/filter changes have allowed us 200K trouble free use. What say you?

What's the general opinion of the 1999-2000 E class series? (Other than the Crankshaft Balancer Failure)

I have not heard enough either way to form an opinion on my own?

Haasman

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'03 E320 Wagon-Sold
'95 E320 Wagon-Went to Ex
'93 190E 2.6-Wrecked
'91 300E-Went to Ex
'65 911 Coupe (#302580)

Out of curiosity, why are you lumping 1999 and 2000 E classes together?

1998-1999 are the two years that share the same engine and body.

2000-2002 have the facelifted look, i.e. different hood, bumper, etc. The middle of the model year 2000 E classes also have the updated crankshaft balancer.

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Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

I thought of this after posting .... I would say the "round headlight" models, spanning all of the models up to but not including the latest model series.

Thanks for the observation.

Haasman

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'03 E320 Wagon-Sold
'95 E320 Wagon-Went to Ex
'93 190E 2.6-Wrecked
'91 300E-Went to Ex
'65 911 Coupe (#302580)

l have had very few problems with this car now close to 150k miles. Runs like just drove it off the dealers lot and besides the usual maintenance items does not need much attention. When problems do occur, diagnostics can be a major challehge with these cars and require a lot of detective work, to say the least. MB seems to design these cars with the premise that the car is always smarter than the driver, hence the excessive controls and too much gadgetry.


my $0.02 worth......

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1993 500SEL

I would break them into three (and a half) groups:

1. Group 1: 1996-1997 E320 (M104 engine)

2. Group 2: 1998-1999 E320 / E430 (M112, M113)

3. Group 3: 2000-2002 E320 / E430 (M112,M113)

4. Group 3 1/2: 1997 E420 (M119)

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Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".