Hmm... interesting point about operating without a battery, though if my battery is dead I'm not sure having to reach over to open a different door by hand is my primary inconvenience.

I'm not sure about the safer-in-a-wreck thing either. I guess if your car is on fire and your electrical system is smashed, your front door is crunched and won't open, you're pinned in your seat so you can't reach any door lock but the driver's side... and yet despite all this massive damage the windows are intact and all the doors locked. So you feebly reach over and are rewarded with the smooth rise of vacuum door locks so that... so that... a rescuer who was too wussy too break a window can open a door and read you your last rites or something? I dunno. Seems far-fetched.

But, I have to agree about the "clonk"... that's the word I was looking for.


He again raised his brow at me, and replied "the five second interval is the correct one."

LOL! You have to admire conviction. Design by some wishy-washy committee would result in a wishy-washy car.

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1992 300E Sedan (Sold)
1999 E320 Wagon (Sold)
1995 E320 Sedan
1995 E320 Wagon

After owning several sixties and seventies sedans and presently owning an 89 560SL and 96 S320 I can say, from personal experience only, Quality has gone down under the three pointed star since about 1990. Yes, 1990 was about the time Mercedes became conserned with cost of production as well as quality, and it is necessary to have a black bottom line to stay in business. We have yet to have problems with either of the current Mercedes in our garage, but I am waiting. We bought the S class used with 77K on it a year ago. It is my wife's driver and a lthough as I said we have yet to have a problem, I can see the potential is there. Mercedes quality is just not what it used to be.
If the S turns into a money pit, restoring a 67 or so S or SE may be the answer. 108's from the late sixties seem to be the best drivers I have ever had.

It is very intersting how some members can pinpoint an exact date of when quality started to go down the drain at Mercedes-Benz.

I say this because M.B. cars have long life cycles, which used to expand around ten years (+/-). Today, these cycles are shorter.

But the fact is: If you bought a Benz car in the 90's, it was for sure designed and thought out in the 80's.

In my opinion, it was in the very early 90's that M.B. decided to let costs run over engineering excellence. Hence, all the actual car lines are the ones who really are realiability nightmares and cheaply finished.

Now M.B. have realized its big mistake and its trying to solve the problem (just look at the W220 facelift).

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A. Rosich
CL 500, 1998
S 500 L, 1998
E 320 T, 1995 [Sadly sold ]

I think it's impossible to truly pin down a "date." Some things have done nothing but get better. My C230's ACC works better and blows colder than any W201 or W124 will ever muster, much less the tepid systems from W123 era cars.

Some electronics have improved dramatically. I have yet to find legions of late model car owners with cruise control systems failing over and over again. I had a hard time finding a W201/W124/W123 owner with working CC.

In terms of engine management and efficiency, the new cars are wonders. They get better mileage, make more power, and work for ages without any adjustment or other intervention. Some emission requirments have forced some components to become more fragile (ALL makers struggle with MAS/AMM's today) but for the most part, fuel and ignition systems have become very long lived and reliable.

Interior components have degraded in quality. The Tex in my car is cheap compared to my old 190E's. The dash and other materials in the W202 are very robust and I thought even better than the lighter plastic in the W210 we owned, but the trend was clear: less. Look at the glove-box door in the W203 vs. previous cars. Yick.

And so on... It's a matter of degrees...

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John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif

I work in the service Dept of a very large Toyota Dealership, and you will be amazed to hear that the 40 odd techs we employ are not getting fat & lazy sitting around doing nothing, and I am not talking about regular maintenance! In the last couple of years Toyota has in my opinion become quite complacent and this has resulted in several models in the last couple of years needing very expensive (in the many thousands) warranty upgrades.
However I have never worked at any Brand dealership where easily half of the mechanical repair vehicles that come in on any given day have such high mileage, and owner satisfaction. The one thing that they have in common is that they are `Toyota owners`. They look at my C230 with140,000 miles, (I still stand and stare at it in the driveway like a kid !) and they say : My wife wouldn`t let me/ What would the neighbors say/ What about the insurance/ I wish I had one/ I need something practical and so on. The point being Guys, you put yourselves in this position by buying the damned thing, so pony up,or paint yourself grey, we have a lot full of Camrys with your name on!

Amen, halleluja, etc., etc., .
Couldn't have said it any better myself !

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2007 C 230 Sport.

I just got off the phone with my cousin, and she has a 1992 500E. She loves her car, and except for a W211 E55, probably wouldn't trade it for anything. That said, she does have some interesting observations about W124 "quality:"

1. She finds the interior materials the best of any car she has personally been in. The leather is cracked and faded, but this is a 12 year old car. Other than that, it looks like new inside. She has had ML and W203 C-Class loaner cars, and finds the interiors much more modern, but don't look as robust.

2. She has had many expensive repairs, many more than the Japanese products she has owned. This, to her, is not a quality gap, but the price she has to pay for owning such a car. She did think she would be disappointed if she had to shell out the same operating dollars for a C-Class or other "normal" MB. She is also disappointed at the inability of the dealer to diagnose problems given that the driveline in the 500E is not a unique set-up, but also found in other models.

3. She would like the 500E to have better electrical components. Her old Honda had power toys that didn't break, and so should the Benz. She has had issues with the sunroof, rear windows, seat heater switches, blower motor, cruise control, and the ACC PBU. The reason she is angry about it is that even after being repaired, they break again quickly. The dealer is quick to blame her when she asks that question. "Don't let snow get on the car, as that wrecks the blower motor." Huh? We live in CANADA, MORON!

4. She also wonders why the car runs so hot and has barely-adequate AC. She spent part of the summer in Arizona and Nevada this year, and the car ran very hot, and the AC struggled to keep the interior cool. It's fine in Canada, but she wondered if MB engineering was all it's cracked up to be.

Now, the great thing about Jan is that she is a realist. She paid about the same for her 500E as you would for a new Accord, but understands the age of the car, and is willing to put up with that. She doesn't expect it to run precisely like a new car. However, she is right in her expectation that what gets fixed should stay fixed for more than a few months. The real question is who's fault that is. Is it MB's or the dealer's?

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John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif

blackmercedes

The latest survey I read, conducted by the CAA, rated VW & M-B dealers pretty much at the bottom of the barrel.
That may answer you last question.
Personally, I'm a little sceptical about any body telling you not to get snow on the car.

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2007 C 230 Sport.

with the ongoing problems of central locking systems, I've just read a thread where the owner of the 400SE has problems with the vaccum system. one thing that didn't croos my mind earlier, which the owner seems to be experiencing now is... when the central locking system fails while in the locked position, the gas door is locked as well. how does one open that up .. ? I know the locks would upen up manually, even without the battery connected as someone mentioned but what about the gas door... ?..
here's the thread just incase .. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?threadid=74853

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Whether you think you can or cannot, Either way you're right!. by Henry Ford.

I thought it was "if at first you don't succeed try try a gun"
William Rogers.......

Benz300

There is a manual release procedure, outlined I believe in your owner's manual.

Basically, you pull back the right side trunk liner and pull the fuel filler door latch manually.

Granted, pulling back the interior trunk liner can be a pain, but when you need fuel ...

Haasman

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'03 E320 Wagon-Sold
'95 E320 Wagon-Went to Ex
'93 190E 2.6-Wrecked
'91 300E-Went to Ex
'65 911 Coupe (#302580)

William..
good one ! but I was trying to get the info for another gentleman on the forum. perhaps I should give him the same advice !

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Whether you think you can or cannot, Either way you're right!. by Henry Ford.

WOW, I just read through the nine(9) pages of this thread. My, My. Cap't carageous, (along with a couple others) with all due respect, stop whinning, it's very unbecoming to a Mercedes enthusiast. Please do yourself a favor and get "cagageous enough" to purcahse a 1998, 1999 Mercedes E420. You won't be disapointed. It's a rocket, reliable and in my opinion one of the best looking and best used car buys in it's class, period. (If there is another car in it's class). Drive it for awhile and then comment about it. Also, if you want to have uncomprimissed true mercedes driving pleasure, compared to any two seater out there, buy a used Mercedes SL. Again, it's a tank and you won't be disapointed. You will then know what the mercedes experience is all about. Well, that's my opinion on this thread. By the way all comments were very enjoyable to read.

Thanks

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Bruce Hat
2000 ML320 50K miles
1997 Jaquar XJ6 41K miles
1992 300SL 70K miles - Mint
1995 E320 Wagon 105K miles "Sold" - 10-6-04
1998 E320 "Totalled" - 1-14-04

If you want to know how crooked a stick is, just lay a straight one next to it.

It's not the tall sails that bring a ship to the port of destination, but the unseen wind.

Uncle's quote to me at 12 yrs old "Why walk when you can Bogaloo"

Can't get much better than the V8. And they're about the same price as the six in the northeast. I can't understand why someone would rather have a six then an eight? The fuel economy is almost the same in my '97 E420, as it was in the '95 E320 wagon my mother owned. About 25 mpg around town, and 27.5 mpg highway. Plus they sound awesome, and pull like heck on the highway.

Also, why would anyone buy the diesel, if they could have the V8 instead? The E420 is a very proven engine, and I have seen some with over 300K miles on them running strong.

Although I have diesels but I have made sure they weren't slow by any measure. If you ever see a nautical-blue 300SDL, or smoke silver 350SD going by at 100mph + with a christian symbol on the back in the NH coastal area, you'll know it's me.

The problem with the E300 is that the injector pump is monitored by a computer. Can't fool around with fuel delivery there, all that can be done is for it to be chipped.

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1987 300SDL (324000)

1986 Porsche 951 (944 Turbo) (166000)

1978 Porsche 924 (99000)

1996 Nissan Pathfinder R50 (201000)

Bruce,
I agree with you on the SL comment. however somehow Mercedes didn't keep tall people in mind when building such a fine car. Anyone above 6'2 has problems fitting in the driving seat. but then again it's the same case with the boxter, z3. and forget the SLK. that wont even fit someone 6 feet. So I wonder. what do people above 6' drive when they need a two seater convertible ? obviously not SL...

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Whether you think you can or cannot, Either way you're right!. by Henry Ford.