190E 2.3 Head gasket - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

xp190 · #1 02-24-2004, 10:41 AM

Hi guys, I have read a few posts on this topic but I still have a few questions.

Coming back from work on sunday night I heard a strange noise coming from the engine, sort of like parts rubbing together or something in the way of something else.

The next day I took a closer look and I found that I have an oil leak from the head gasket, quite sever since its getting on to the exhaust mainfold, from underneath it, causing the oil to burn up.

I want to change the head gasket, and at the same time I would like to get the head rebuilt to make sure everything is perfect.

I looked over the manual for my 1985 190E 2.3L 8vlv and it does not mention me having to pull of the timing cover, is this right? Can I take off the head without taking off the timing cover?

Also which engine is this? Would that be the M103 or M104, I never really knew how these references go and I sure did not find any mention of it in the manual but it seems to be the way to refer to them so I want to get it down right. The engine S/N is 102.985 if that helps anyone answer my question.

Secondly, what is involved in rebuilding a head? My dad works at a machine shop and he is responsible for measuring everything that comes out of it, so I know that with his help I can check the specs of every valve, but since I am on a rather limited budget, I would like to know if it would be better to just get someone to rebuild the head once I pull it off, or try doing it myself.

To get the job done right, I was thinking about obtaining the cylinder head gasket set from Fastlane, well I would have to order from parts-bin, but I am concerned with the quality of the gaskets, and I want the best. Should I just go to the dealer and get the gasket set instead or would it make any difference at all?

And lastly, since an indy changed the timing chain, sprockets and guide rails for me over a year ago, the engine started making a high pitched whining noise. I took the timing cover off to replace the cracked slide rail since I saw him break it when he was putting it in, but that is not what makes the noise. I was wondering if there is any such possibility of installing the sprockets on backwards. Could it be the chain itself making that noise? I know something is for sure, but the car still runs fine, and I'm out of ideas how to lose this whine. The chain does not touch much at all, but it definately sounds like the noise comes from the chain rubbing against something it should not. Consequences of it breaking might be severe, but taking off the timing cover everytime to try something new is an awful lot of work.

Any other tips, clues, links, suggestions will be greatly appreciated

I hope to take lots of pictures to give a step by step walk through of this job when I'm done.

Thanking you in advance

xp

Greg in Oz · #2 02-24-2004, 09:12 PM

It's an M102 engine. Easy to replace a head gasket for anyone familiar with this sort of work. I have done this job on both an M102 and M103 and they are similar. With the M102 you don't have to deal with a distributor or upper-front timing cover as with the M103. I found the manifold nuts/bolts a little more difficult to deal with on the M102 though. Workshop manuals suggest pulling the head with both manifolds attached. I (like many others here) prefer to leave the inlet manifold in the engine bay to avoid disturbing all the wiring etc.

The mileage on the car will determine whether the head, valves, guides, etc. require additional work. If the head is flat and everything else OK you can get away with cleaning it, new valve stem seals and head gasket. You will need to at least check it all though. Stretch head bolts need to be checked for length and replaced if stretched beyond limit. They need to be torqued correctly in three stages when reinstalled. I recently helped my brother replace the head gasket on his '92 180E (190E-1.8) at just 93,000km. Everything on it was perfect except for just the head gasket. The head went back on with a new gasket and head bolts (to play it safe) after thoroughly cleaning everything and fitting new stem seals. Most of the cost with that job was replacing all the oil contaminated hoses in the cooling system.

xp190 · #3 02-24-2004, 10:06 PM

Greg, Thanx so much for the feedback

The manual I have outlines exactly how the head bolts should be torqued down, I'll follow it to the letter.

Tomorrow morning I'll order the gasket set.

xp

Greg in Oz · #4 02-25-2004, 05:54 PM

xp,

I probably should have also mentioned that the most stubborn part of the job on my brother's car were the pins retaining the timing chain guide rail in the front of the head. Between the two of us we probably spent an hour with a slide hammer extracting the pins. Attempting to extract them by winding a screw though a washer and spacer (or winding a nut down a stud through a washer and spacer) appeared that it would only result in a broken-off stud in the pins. Fortunately, I had a slide hammer I made up years ago for the same job on the M116 in my 350SLC. I have also used it doing the head on the M103 in our 300TE. It is a length of steel rod with a 6mm stud threaded in one end (this screws into the pin) and a large nut threaded onto the opposite end. A weight slides along the rod and hammers against the large nut thereby pulling on the stud threaded into the pin. Without this tool I would have been in an awkward situation, especially on the stubborn pins in the M102. The only other "special" tools you will require are the 12 point driver for the head bolts, a good torque wrench of known accuracy and a 17mm allen key for the timing chain tensioner. I made one up using a bolt with 17mm nuts locked together. Good luck with the job.

Greg

xp190 · #5 02-25-2004, 09:59 PM

My Dad has tools in his machine shop for stubborn pins, so as trouble some as they are, they will come out one way or the next.

The 12 point head bolt tool I don't have yet, as well as a few hard to find sockets. I will probably be placing a few orders tomorrow to take care of all this.

Is there a name and size for this tool?

In the mean time I found out that a new car that my neighbour gave me has a severel leaking head gasket also. This is a domestic car with a V6 compact design... First bolt I turned on it broke off. Not looking foward to the same job on it.

xp

tower · #6 02-26-2004, 08:16 AM

I think I want to meet up with you. I have a 1995S420 that I need to replace all the timing chain workings and tools may be an issue. Don't have the rivetter yet. Don't have a slid hammer to remove the pins. Your only about an hour away from me.

Ron

xp190 · #7 02-26-2004, 02:11 PM

hey Tower, are you an hour away from me or Greg?

xp

olpos · #8 02-26-2004, 03:13 PM

just pulled the head on my 88 190 2.3, which had a severe oil leak before i bought it.
turned out #4 clyinder was bad, melted piston,lots of blow by.
do a compression check first. may save you a load of trouble.

if the timing cover was done,can the oil leak be from there.
large oil leaks may be blow by or timing cover.
also find out more about that noise before tear down.
good luck rich

tower · #9 02-27-2004, 07:36 AM

From you....live in Kitchener, Ontario.

My parts arrive today so that I can match the remaining tooling requirements.

xp190 · #10 02-27-2004, 09:36 AM

olpos

The oil leak is in near the firewall on the passanger side, under the downpipe, so it's not the timing cover for sure, I reselead it myself and it looks like I did a good job.

As for piston blow by, well, I'll have to pull the head one way or the other won't I? I hope they're in good shape but I can't be sure.

The whinning noise, the only thing I can think of right now is checking the alignment of all the sprockets, and the chain itself. I know it's coming from the timing components, maybe I'll get another chain and see if that will make any difference, this one is an aftermarket chain, ever since it was put on, the car made this noise.

tower

I ordered my parts yesterday, I'll go check the pin that everyone claims is so hard to pull, I might be able to put a puller for it together. I did that before with suspension bushings and I think those are much harder to get out then a pin, but we'll see. If you want I can make one for you also if it helps any.

xp

olpos · #11 02-27-2004, 09:43 AM

xp190. hi, good luck on your car.
just wanted to say that even though i live in so. california, i was born in canada. i am very proud of that fact. feels good to talk with people that are from the great north. good luck.
rich

xp190 · #12 02-28-2004, 10:08 AM

hi olps

thanx for the words of encouragement

come by and visit some time

it's still nice up here

xp

Greg in Oz · #13 02-29-2004, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xp190
The 12 point head bolt tool I don't have yet, as well as a few hard to find sockets. I will probably be placing a few orders tomorrow to take care of all this.

Is there a name and size for this tool?

xp

Hazet Tools do 12 point drivers for the head bolts. The one they specifically do for the M102, M103, M104, M119 and M120 is Hazet number 2752. They also have three others in various lengths that will work, Hazet numbers 990-12, 990Lg-12 and 990SLg-12. I have used both a 990-12 and a 990Lg-12 on the M102 and M103 head bolts.

xp190 · #14 03-01-2004, 03:34 PM

I wonder if I can find a place that sells these in Canada.