WVO vs Diesel debate. - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Hatterasguy · #31 09-17-2007, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt SD300

Yep........... at 70,000 miles on the stuff...I know a thing or two about what works and don't........

Ever heard this line?.....keep it simple.. stupid...........that's what "WVO"is all about.......

..........Single tank.....thing outside the box.......

How cold does it get where you live? Can I pour WVO in my tank and have my car start and run in a normal mannner when its bellow 0 degrees?

Matt SD300 · #32 09-17-2007, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

How cold does it get where you live? Can I pour WVO in my tank and have my car start and run in a normal mannner when its bellow 0 degrees?

No...you would have to blend.........

Palangi · #33 09-17-2007, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt SD300

No...you would have to blend.........

Pretty sure WHunter does this successfully in the winter. He lives in Detroit. (Brrrrrr)

Matt SD300 · #34 09-17-2007, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palangi

Pretty sure WHunter does this successfully in the winter. He lives in Detroit. (Brrrrrr)

Hatt's....referring to a single tank system........I never run straight WVO...I always blend.....90/10...when we start getting "frost"..I use Unleaded to cut the WVO.........

Botnst · #35 12-03-2007, 05:42 PM

Company aims to turn stinky diapers into diesel fuel
By Sidhartha Banerjee , THE CANADIAN PRESS

MONTREAL - If a Quebec company has its way, dirty diapers normally destined for landfills will soon be transformed into a cost-effective, synthetic diesel fuel.

It's not such a stretch, says engineering and project management company AMEC, which is working on behalf of an as yet unnamed client to build a facility in the Montreal area that would use a process known as pyrolysis to convert diapers to diesel.

The concept has been around for ages and is continually changing, said Luciano Piciacchia, an engineer and vice-president with Amec's Quebec office.

"But some of the issues that come up with (the process) is the consistency of the material you're putting through," he added.

Enter diapers, which are in plentiful supply in area hospitals and consistent in their composition. The company is considering a collection system to ensure it gets the volume it requires.

"If we try to take municipal waste and run it through a system like this, it would be too variable and you'd get all sorts of nasty surprises you'd have to deal with," Piciacchia said.

"One of the beauties of the diaper is that it is going to be a very consistent input."

The initial plan is to convert about 30,000 tonnes of diapers, about one-quarter of the diapers that end up in landfills in Quebec yearly. Piciacchia says that number of diapers will translate into about 11,000 tonnes of diesel fuel. The preliminary economic analysis pegs the cost of the fuel at 50 cents per litre.

Pyrolysis, also known as thermal cracking, involves heating up the diapers up in a closed, controlled environment at temperatures of up to 600C without air, essentially breaking them down thermally.

"Then you're bringing it to the next level which is breaking the carbon chains down ... and (in the end) they will resemble the fuels which are what we're going to end up producing," Piciacchia said.

The so-called diaper diesel can be used in just about any industrial application, but probably won't be suitable for use in an automobile, Piciacchia said.

"The other beauty of it is because this whole thing works in a closed system, there are no emissions," he added.

David Bressler of the University of Alberta says pyrolysis is a "very hot area of research right now" as industry looks for ways to further develop biofuel production technology.

"There is a lot of good things about this class of technology, there aren't a lot of negatives," Bressler said. "Right now, they're just figuring out how to make the process cost-efficient ... that's really the catch in the bio-industrial side."

Piciacchia says there are plenty of companies looking at other potential feedstocks.

One of his company's clients is looking at car fluff - the non-metallic parts in a car - while another is looking at roof shingles as a potential source.

With fingers crossed, Piciacchia says a diaper diesel plant could be in operation in the Montreal area within the 18 months.

Bressler says the science is sound, but there will be some bumps along the way as they attempt to turn it into a profitable industry.

"You kind of have to hit the ground to get going and then once you're at that scale, you can go back and gain the efficiency you need to be long-term competitive," Bressler said.

Don Smith, a professor in the plant sciences department at McGill University, says with the process improving, diapers could certainly fly.

"Economically, you're turning a waste stream into a resource stream, and that works pretty well," Smith said. "It could fly and it would be good if it did fly. There are a lot of these diapers going to landfills and it would just be great if we could convert these into something useful."

greasybenz · #36 12-03-2007, 05:51 PM

Here is an interesting thread. 80K miles on wvo, but the guy was very anal about filtering and switching at the correct temps.

But this also shows that wvo CAN do well in high pressure fuel systems. The PD injection system pumps fuel out at 29,000 PSI.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=197032

sixto · #37 12-03-2007, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Company aims to turn stinky diapers into diesel fuel
By Sidhartha Banerjee , THE CANADIAN PRESS

MONTREAL - If a Quebec company has its way, dirty diapers normally destined for landfills will soon be transformed into a cost-effective, synthetic diesel fuel.

Those Canadians sure know their sh**

Why stop with diapers? Unless the energy comes from the diaper itself, there's lots of septic tanks they can tap.

Is it really a closed system with no emissions? Doesn't the process start with emissions?

Sixto
87 300D

Matt SD300 · #38 12-03-2007, 11:32 PM

75k+...and still going.................or 15k saved........= Free..truck & car..

...What debate???????

diametricalbenz · #39 12-04-2007, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

I'm still waiting for a partial list of the "considerable number of folks" who trashed a perfectly good W-123 or W-126.

In fact, I'm still waiting for the first example on that list.

There are some yellow tagged W123's on the LA freeways from time to time but they all have Lovecrap stickers on them. I think it helps prove that the system is crap and the owners are unbelieveably guillible in buying and owning cars that they know nothing about. Including things like checking the oil level and tire pressure.

I can attest to Matt's WVO vehicles. Apparently there's not enough damage to drag race against a BMW 528I 5 speed manual and easily win

Brian Carlton · #40 12-04-2007, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diametricalbenz

There are some yellow tagged W123's on the LA freeways from time to time but they all have Lovecrap stickers on them. I think it helps prove that the system is crap and the owners are unbelieveably guillible in buying and owning cars that they know nothing about. Including things like checking the oil level and tire pressure.

I can attest to Matt's WVO vehicles. Apparently there's not enough damage to drag race against a BMW 528I 5 speed manual and easily win

I'm not following the conclusion that the Lovecraft system disabled the vehicle. In LA, the ambient temperatures would not be the factor. So, the individuals would need to be very lax on filtering to get to a point where the vehicle won't run.

Does the Lovecraft system provide instructions and advice on filtering?

I think we can find some vehicles that are stuck on the side of the road for failure to change the oil for 60K miles.

You can't expect a vehicle to survive the owner's stupidity and negligence............independent of what fuel or what oil is in the vehicle.

The original conclusion by the OP is that the WVO system is trashing perfectly good vehicles. While it is certainly possible for this to occur, there's far more perfectly good vehicles running on regular diesel that are getting trashed due to the negligence of the owner.

WVOtoGO · #41 12-04-2007, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt SD300

Yep........... at 70,000 miles on the stuff...I know a thing or two about what works and don't........

Ever heard this line?.....keep it simple.. stupid...........that's what "WVO"is all about.......

...

I couldn’t agree more.

I may not have 70K on the stuff, but my 123 certainly has 50K or more. I’ve quit paying attention to the mileage issue long ago.

Keeping it simple is everything.
But, I guess that’s much easier to do down here where it’s pretty warm (if not damn hot) most of the time.
90+ degree days - I can run it straight. Doesn’t mean I do. But I have, and can.
Freezing nights and cold days – I cut it with some RUG.
Anything in between – I play each batch by ear.

No rocket science. Just common sense and what has done well for me in the past.
When it didn’t go well…It was a failure outside the fuel tank, not in it. I learned, and moved on with the new knowledge. i.e. Gee…Cutting with some diesel fuels (Texaco’s for sure) will cause a formation of filter clogging wax when it gets too cold. So – I use RUG and don’t worry about it.

I have no idea what it takes to run on the stuff up north in the colder climates. Nor do I care. I would guess it’s far more critical than the somewhat eye-balled guess work we can get away with down here.

By “get away with”, I mean: What I’ve done without seeing any damage for probably 50K+ miles now. And NO, I haven’t pulled an injector out to look at it. Nor have I pulled the head to see how the cylinders are doing. Don’t plan to either. I do run a can of Diesel Purge through it every 6 months or so. Seems to do something good to it. But I’m not going to get back into that issue with anyone here either. So don’t even bring it up.

I think a lot of the hacking is coming from up north, where it may be required to add a tank, a heater, a coolant line to the tank, a valve here and there, a heated filter, ……..

Then again – maybe that’s just someone trying to make a buck selling you something you don’t really need. I’ve plugged my block heater in before bed. Got up when it was 20 degrees out. Let the glow plugs run for a full cycle. Started (about 5 seconds on the starter) my car on WVO/RUG, and drove all over town. Maybe it’s magic. Maybe it’s luck. Or maybe it is what it is. A diesel engine running on something other than pump diesel fuel. Plain and simple.

eagle-co94 · #42 12-04-2007, 02:08 PM

Okay, I'm in the KISS camp. I see no need to modify an existing (properly functioning) fuel system. I've picked up a single 55gal drum and roughly 40 gal of WVO to start.

First question: RUG? Regular Unleaded Gas perhaps?

I've got a lot of reading to do I know...but I'm not in a huge rush as my CD isn't here yet, nor is it registered yet either.

WVOtoGO · #43 12-04-2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eagle-co94

First question: RUG? Regular Unleaded Gas perhaps?

Yep RUG = Regular Unleaded Gasoline.

BTW - You're going to need another 55gal. drum to put the stuff from the first drum into once it's filtered. Or as with most of us, as you filter it.

Out of the first drum.
Through the filter bag/sock and into the clean drum.
Mix with RUG (and whatever else I feel like mixing into it).
Out of the clean drum.
Through the fuel filter and into the fuel tank.

Pretty simple. Works best when it's warm/hot outside.

Don't get the stuff on anything important !! Once the stuff starts to dry, NASA could use it to glue tiles to the space shuttle.
And NO, the car wash pressure washers wont blast it off.
It's nasty NASTY stuff.

BTW - The nasty watery crud at the bottom of the first barrel makes a great weed control for fence-lines, etc.

aklim · #44 12-04-2007, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

90% chance of my next MB being gas.

Seeing as how diesel is so much more expensive today, that would go for me too unless I need some serious towing power.

Honus · #45 12-04-2007, 05:21 PM

I go through a fair amount of diesel fuel, but it's mostly short trips. The commute with my 1985 300D is about 15 minutes, so it's barely getting warm by the time I get to the office. My farm tractors also do mostly short jobs, with the occasional long job. My diesel lawn mower, on the other hand, does relatively long jobs and then sits idle for several days to a week. I'm thinking that the WVO thing isn't going to work well under those circumstances. It seems like it would work better if you are getting the motor good and hot on a consistent basis. Do any of you WVO proponents see it different?