I also see a lot of myths about electric vehicles floating around the internet.

1/3 the cost? To charge a 60 kw/hr battery pack at standard USA electric rates would cost about $7.80 today. The Model 3 has an advertised range of 235 miles, and I'd be willing to bet it might be able to get that if its used exclusively in its 'sweet spot' of performance IE shorter trips in a city/suburban environment. People that are using Teslas and other EV on longer-range and higher speed drives are not going to get anywhere near 235 mile range. Think a Model 3 driving on an interstate highway at 80MPH when its at sub-freezing temps is going to go 235 miles? Would you want to use the last 50 miles of range if you're driving in a rural environment at night? Not likely.

Also keep in mind that the $7.80 to go 235 miles doesn't currently include a penny of federal or state road tax. If we wanted to be fair we'd have to include the costs that the diesel drivers are currently paying for road use tax into the equation right? That's currently somewhere around .35-.50 cents per gallon depending on where you live.

A Model 3 sized car with a modern CDI engine would return at least 45-50 MPG. Assuming the lower end 45MPG and current diesel fuel cost of $2.30 per gallon it would cost me around $12 for the trip. With the electric car it would be $7.80 for the juice + $2.15 for road tax or around $10.

It's less but not really all that much less, and you'd have to be willing to put up with some pretty significant limitations and inconveniences that don't exist with the CDI vehicle.

I've also read about the Model S that went 200K miles and only lost 6% of its battery capacity due to battery fade. Of course Li-on battery life lifecycle is a well-understood issue and if you use the standard charge/discharge expected cycle life you'll find that at about 150K miles the battery packs should be down to about 60% capacity. Everything I've ever bought/used that has a Li-on battery pack has exhibited the exact same battery fade issues as the charge/discharge cycles add up. Not really sure why Teslas are apparently immune to this issue but apparently they are? I'd like to hear more about how Elon has side-stepped the physics of battery fade. If he has he should license and sell the technology to iPhone battery makers and cordless tool battery makers because that technology would truly be 'disruptive'.

As far as your EV's, coal and 30% thermal efficiency modern CDI internal combustion engine argument I suggest you do a bit more research about the thermal efficiency of modern power plants vs modern CDI engines. They are pretty much identical.

If the Model 3 is such a game changer and its disruptive technology how come the Chevy Volt which has the exact same specifications and costs as the Model 3 is languishing on the sales floor?

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98 Dodge-Cummins pickup (137K)
13 GLK250 (157k)
06 E320CDI (341K)
16 C300 (89K)
82 300GD Gelaendewagen (54K)

I have a friend who owns the standard and expensive Tesla. He has been very happy with the build quality of the car; says it is about the best he has ever owned. However he has to plan all of his out of town trips around the locations of charging stations.

That seems to be his major gripe.

Because it's a POS GM car. There's about 50 ways I can expand on that. There are currently over 400,000 Model 3's on pre-order (deposit paid customers). Gm will NEVER sell 400k Volts ever in their lives.


And as far as your charging math though - where are you, the Communist State of CA? Those numbers I'm seeing you post look like ~.10/KWh. National average for off-peak is significantly less. And then there's Teslas Superchargers and any other public use chargers that may be available.

Actually our electric usage has INCREASED due to population increase and more usage of electric powered tools, electronics, and machinery. The problem is that the grid is NOT increasing in size or capacity, quite the opposite. They keep closing "dirty" power plants, but not replacing that capacity with anything considered as a "base load".

For what it's worth, I live in Texas which has one of the lowest electric rates in the country. The electric rate is only 6.5˘/KWh, but when you add in the taxes, line fees, administration fees, and other crap that's attached to your bill, guess what - 10˘/KWh. Check YOUR math and find out what you're doing wrong. Throw out any "rebates" or other con games and tell us what your electric rate REALLY is.

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Current stable:
1995 E320 157K (Nancy)
1983 500SL 125K (SLoL)

Gone but not forgotten:
1986 300SDL (RIP)
1991 350SD
1991 560SEL
1990 560SEL
1986 500SEL Euro (Rusted to nothing at 47K!)

Gone and wanting to forget:
1985 524TD 167K (TotalDumpster™) [Definitely NOT a Benz]

Month of May 2017, I used 1273 KWh. My total bill was $147. Thats ~11.4 cents per KW/h. My power company is a co-op, and my bill does not specify any rates, but they do have a dedicated EV program:

https://www.jacksonemc.com/home-manage-my-account/residential-rates/residential-plug-electric-vehicle-service-schedule-apev-17

Pretty close to the national average which I think is .12 kw/hr which I think is what I used for my calculations

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98 Dodge-Cummins pickup (137K)
13 GLK250 (157k)
06 E320CDI (341K)
16 C300 (89K)
82 300GD Gelaendewagen (54K)

Well, the most important issue with the Bolt is that it takes forever to charge. It is impractical to take it on a road trip. Who wants a car that can only travel 235 when there is no charging network? And style, who wants a Bolt when you can drive a Tesla Model 3? The base price of a Model 3 will be comparable to the BMW 3 Series (which 2016 sales were down 25% in 2016! as consumers wait for the M3), Mercedes C Class and the Audi 4 and fuel is 1/3 the cost with a drivetrain that will last exponentially longer. I think this is a huge game changer which is what the stock market is telling us. Ford and GM's stock price has been going down for 4 years while car sales have been in record territory the last few years. A disruptive change is going to come whether you personally will welcome the change.

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85 300CD Signal Red/Tan sold
83 300D Manganese Brown 109K
97 E420 Midnight Blue 197K sold
98 BMW 328i Vert White 100K, sold
95 BMW 525i White 125K, sold
93 BMW 525iT Red 193K, sold
95 E320 Green Wagon 125K, sold
94 E320 White 127K, sold
85 300SD 156K Grey (Annie), sold
84 300D Lapis Blue 170K (Judy), sold
99 ML 320 Black (lease), 1998 C230 White (lease)
00 Honda S2000 Red (lease)
86 Mercedes 300E (sold)
84 Porsche 911 Red (sold), 1965 Porsche 911 White (sold)

No charging network? I looked on PlugShare.com and there are fast charging stations all over Connecticut.

There is a balance between charging rate and battery longevity. Batteries charged slower last longer. Model 3 batteries may charge faster than the Bolt EV but they probably won't last as long. The Tesla and the public fast charging network charge rates are't all that different.

The Bolt and the Model 3 are city commuter cars. At these current miles per charge neither is a good road trip car.

TimFreeh: Can you please reference where you found the Tesla will loose 4-6000 watts per day? That's a huge amount. All I've found on the internet is 3-6 miles per day and that should be somewhere about 1000 watts, plus or minus.

Has anyone commenting here owned an electric car?

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1985 300CD, CA
172 Anthrazitgrau/Palomino 154

1985 300TD, CA
040 Schwarz/Palomino 154/3rd row seat

1985 300TD, CA
473 Champagner/Palomino 154/Cargo cover

Battery techonology is getting better every single year. No doubt Tesla has the latest and greatest cell chemistry going in their cars. I can't quite remember but normally battery warranties are to 80% of original capacity after 100,000 or 150,000 miles or whatever


No doubt CDI is efficient, but remember an ICE is hardly ever run under ideal circumstances (stop start, idling, running accessories). How much fuel goes to waste every year just idling the world's engines? It would be millions of litres...

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1978 300D, 373,000km 617.912, 711.113 5 speed, 7.5mm superpump, HX30W turbo...many, many years in the making....
1977 280> 300D - 500,000km+ (to be sold...)
1984 240TD>300TD 121,000 miles, *gone*
1977 250 parts car
1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D *gone*
1975 FJ45>HJ45
1981 200>240D (to be sold...)
1999 Hyundai Lantra 1.6 *gone*
1980s Lansing Bagnall FOER 5.2 Forklift (the Mk2 engine hoist)
2001 Holden Rodeo 4JB1T 2WD