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  #1  
Old 09-15-2012, 05:26 PM
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Another rust related question

I noticed some rust stains on underside of rocker panel near access plug that is just aft of the front jack point driver side.

No big deal, I touched it up with POR. But when under car for another reason, I could see rust inside the rocker.

But not sure what that rusty piece is? I seem to recall that on some cars there were baffles in there to direct drains from sunroof or something??

I will probably just try and get some POR in there and then have car rust treated (which will include spraying Krown or Rustcheck inside the rockers).

Anyone know what it is I can see inside that hole?
Attached Thumbnails
Another rust related question-img_1707.jpg   Another rust related question-img_1709.jpg   Another rust related question-img_1710.jpg  
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Old 09-16-2012, 05:06 AM
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This is your W123?

It looks like it but I thought I'd check... I think that that's the floor pan. Lift up the carpets and remove the sound insulation to see the extent of the damage.

Some where like the front windshield or the pockets into which the bonnet hinges retract will be leaking. Water falls down into the footwell(s) and flows along the floor pan (trapped) between the sound insulation, the floor pan, and that wonderfull rubberised MB undercoating that makes sure it all stays there until the metal has rotted away.
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

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Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #3  
Old 09-16-2012, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Army View Post
This is your W123?

It looks like it but I thought I'd check... I think that that's the floor pan. Lift up the carpets and remove the sound insulation to see the extent of the damage.

Some where like the front windshield or the pockets into which the bonnet hinges retract will be leaking. Water falls down into the footwell(s) and flows along the floor pan (trapped) between the sound insulation, the floor pan, and that wonderfull rubberised MB undercoating that makes sure it all stays there until the metal has rotted away.
Yes it is the 85 300D.

That rusted piece is inside the rocker panel. Do the floor pans come down in there?

I will have a look from inside soon.
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:55 AM
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This thread has grown and grown but if you skip through it you'll see how the underside is constructed.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/body-repair-restoration/303669-my-w123-saloon-sedan-old-accident-repair-bit-rust-repair-thread.html
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Last edited by Stretch; 09-17-2012 at 10:56 AM. Reason: Forgot link - doh!
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  #5  
Old 09-17-2012, 12:50 PM
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You were of course right - The floorpan is rusted quite badly on the outer edge.

To really see the extent, I need to remove the soundproofing. It is in good condition. Is there a way of getting it off without destroying it?


This job started off with me fixing a small rust spot on a rear wheel arch (now completed). Then I took the wheel off

- rust in driver side wheel well at rubber buffers
- rust near torsion bar mounts
- old fibreglass repairs on passenger side in same areas
- some perforation from driver side trunk (repaired)
- rust patch on passenger side rocker panel (repaired)
- stone chips below headlights (repaired)
- surface rust on driver side rocker panel around one access plug
which led me to the current problem

I guess I should dig a bit further and see how bad the floor pan corrosion is.

Given this is not a car that I really need to get around, perhaps I should sell it as-is. It has an engine that has done 100k km and exterior and interior looks great. (Repainted 5yrs ago). A couple of local shops have expressed an interest. What should I ask if I go this route?


Some pics. Water clearly dripped down from speedo cable bracket.
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Another rust related question-123floorpanrust.jpg   Another rust related question-123floorpanrust1.jpg   Another rust related question-123speedocablerust.jpg  
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Old 09-17-2012, 01:21 PM
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I don't think it is possible to remove the sound proofing intact - well not in my climate - it needs to be really warm for it to come off in larger pieces. Even then I reckon you'd just get some stubborn bits. I used a blow torch to remove mine, though I've been informed on BW that a decent hot air gun works too. In both cases wear a decent mask.

The sound insulation is available at the dealer but again it needs to be warm to be applied. Not a nice easy job in my opinion...

...I can see myself and others getting really frustrated with the stuff.

That rust looks worse than the rust in my car - I think you might be shocked at how little steel is left down there.

I can't really comment on values as most things here cost way more than they do where you are!
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #7  
Old 09-17-2012, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Army View Post
I don't think it is possible to remove the sound proofing intact - well not in my climate - it needs to be really warm for it to come off in larger pieces. Even then I reckon you'd just get some stubborn bits. I used a blow torch to remove mine, though I've been informed on BW that a decent hot air gun works too. In both cases wear a decent mask.
I will give teh hot air gun a shot. I do remember getting the SP off on my SL, but I don't think it was glued down.

Quote:

That rust looks worse than the rust in my car - I think you might be shocked at how little steel is left down there.
Thanks
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Old 09-17-2012, 03:34 PM
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I got part of sound proofing off with hot air gun and scraper. Enough to expose most of rust. Pics below. The last one shows the hole through which I first saw the floor pan rust. Middle one is back end near crossbeam.

Not sure I want to pay someone to do the rear wheel wells and the floor pans. Probably around $3k if we don't unearth anything else.
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Another rust related question-img_1714.jpg   Another rust related question-img_1715.jpg   Another rust related question-img_1716.jpg  
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  #9  
Old 09-17-2012, 03:55 PM
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Any interest in learning how to weld?

You can buy a MIG from Canadian Tire for about $400 (they go on sale a few times a year) and do the floor sections.
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Old 09-17-2012, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
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Any interest in learning how to weld?

You can buy a MIG from Canadian Tire for about $400 (they go on sale a few times a year) and do the floor sections.
It is something I always wanted to learn. Way back, I did learn how to braze. I also had access to a electric spot welder at one time and made a few things using that.

But getting on in years, so this job is probably more than I would want to tackle. At $50/hr I think it would make better sense to use the restoration shop I found.

Had thought about doing a mechanical repair with HD S/S pop rivets (I do have a HD gun) along with a bit of epoxy/glass and POR. I could probably do a half decent job and extend life of car a few years. I will discuss this with the my welding guy.

But leaning toward trying to off-loading car as-is at a fair price considering it's condition. Maybe a young guy with more energy than I have could turn it back into a great car. Engine/transmissions etc are good.
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  #11  
Old 09-18-2012, 02:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
...
Not sure I want to pay someone to do the rear wheel wells and the floor pans. Probably around $3k if we don't unearth anything else.
Well at least you've found someone who will do it for a more resonable amount. I'm not being sarcastic. When I was faced with the damage shown in the thread I posted a few posts ago I shopped around for a body shop and the lowest price was about 10000 euros (yes there are 4 zeros after that one!). Nobody really wanted to do the work. That's why I've been learning how to weld.
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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Old 09-18-2012, 09:30 AM
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Well at least you've found someone who will do it for a more resonable amount. I'm not being sarcastic. When I was faced with the damage shown in the thread I posted a few posts ago I shopped around for a body shop and the lowest price was about 10000 euros (yes there are 4 zeros after that one!). Nobody really wanted to do the work. That's why I've been learning how to weld.
You are right - I was lucky to find this guy, and he wants to do the work. He says the floor pan can easily be patched (but he has only seen the pics.

I have a question for you (as THE expert on 123 rust repairs!).

The section of floor pan between the underfloor structural beam and the door sill is lower than the main floor (probably why it rusted out.) That area has very little metal left. The lower part of the sill has also rusted away.

If we want to patch the floor rather than replace it, is there any need to recreate that depression? There are cables & tubes that run along there. They have a black cover that they run through.

I found that we can buy the Klokkerholm panels here Maybe that is the way to go?

Maybe that is a better way to go, even we cut it up and use it as a patch.
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Graham View Post
You are right - I was lucky to find this guy, and he wants to do the work. He says the floor pan can easily be patched (but he has only seen the pics.

I have a question for you (as THE expert on 123 rust repairs!).

The section of floor pan between the underfloor structural beam and the door sill is lower than the main floor (probably why it rusted out.) That area has very little metal left. The lower part of the sill has also rusted away.

If we want to patch the floor rather than replace it, is there any need to recreate that depression? There are cables & tubes that run along there. They have a black cover that they run through.

I found that we can buy the Klokkerholm panels here Maybe that is the way to go?

Maybe that is a better way to go, even we cut it up and use it as a patch.
I don't consider myself to be an expert. I've done my best to assemble as much information as I can in that thread. There are other people here who have actually finished the job!

Do a search for dropnosky - he did loads of work on a W123 240D - and alabassi (I think I got the spelling right) he has had a few flintstone cars too!

As far as I can tell the channel like shapes in the floor pan are there for structural rigidity. They are kind of used as convenient places for wires and tubes too but I think primarily they are there for stiffness. The metal thickness is only about 0.8mm for most bits there.

The out rigger parts that look like a proper chassis part under the feet of the front seat passengers are thicker steel about 1.5mm if I remember correctly and these bits can actually be bought from the dealer - and beautiful they are too!

I'm not really a fan of klokkerholm parts. Since I joined metalmeet (another forum) my grand ideas have gotten a bit grander! I'm now trying to make my own floor pan... if I get anywhere with it I'll update my rust repair thread. I think the klokkerholm parts are OK so long as you are not too fussy about fit or finish. You'll not get it looking stock with any of their panels that go on the inside of the car that's for sure...

...I think it comes down to horses for courses. If you are happy for a MIG welded lap joint fix with perhaps a bit of filler here are there or a few patch work bits added here and there then I reckon klokkerholm panels are a good start. In that situation they save a lot of time...

...however if you want your car to look like it has just been wheeled out of the classic centre then I reckon you could be a bit disappointed.

Take a look at the ripples on the outer edges of the klokkerholm floor pannel I posted in this picture



That got me thinking "It will take forever but I reckon I can make one better than Klokkerholm"!
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #14  
Old 09-18-2012, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Army View Post
Do a search for dropnosky - he did loads of work on a W123 240D - and alabassi (I think I got the spelling right) he has had a few flintstone cars too!
Looked for dropnosky's rust repairs but the link to superdiesel he had posted no longer works.



Quote:
I'm not really a fan of klokkerholm parts... I think the klokkerholm parts are OK so long as you are not too fussy about fit or finish. You'll not get it looking stock with any of their panels that go on the inside of the car that's for sure...

...I think it comes down to horses for courses. If you are happy for a MIG welded lap joint fix with perhaps a bit of filler here are there or a few patch work bits added here and there then I reckon klokkerholm panels are a good start. In that situation they save a lot of time...

...however if you want your car to look like it has just been wheeled out of the classic centre then I reckon you could be a bit disappointed.

Take a look at the ripples on the outer edges of the klokkerholm floor pannel I posted in this picture
Your Klok panels don't look as good as the ones on the fixmyrust site. How did they get like that? I think I may get those, but will check with welder first.
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Old 09-18-2012, 04:17 PM
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Cool I booked marked the klok page, at least I'll know where to get parts if I need to rebuild. I had a great Lincoln Electric SP100. Excellent for this type of work.

When doing rust repair work, tack it down first than work in small segments like an inch & jump around as to not warp the metal.

Dave
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