Welcome to the Car Audio Forum

[bdrought]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I've noticed quite a few car audio posts on MercedesShop. Until now, they've been unceremoniously dumped in with everything else. After much talking with Bill Wood, we decided to create a seperate forum for audio. To remove stress and strain from Benzmac, Lee etc etc, I've offered to moderate it.... so, what do we aim to achieve here? Well, in my opinion, a Benz is just about the finest way to travel, on any road type, over any distance. No matter how good the car, generally the best way to spend time is listening to music, and as we know, the standard M-B systems are how can I say...? Lacking.

So, we'll try to offer upgrade advice, tweaking advice, listening advice and any other advice related to audio!

A little about me then... I've been into car audio for years now, and home audio even longer. However, I've only been into Benzes for 5 or 6 months. This does mean that I couldnt tell you what size speakers fit in the stock locations in a 1988 190E, but I can tell you how to tune them, amp them and wire them so they sound as good as possible ;-) All I ask is bear with me on the Benz specific details at the moment... until that is we build a library of speaker sizes etc etc :-) Other than that, I'll do my best to help, and I'm sure the collective knowledge on MercedesShop is enough to answer almost anything !

Please feel free to send me an email or ICQ on any ideas you have, and please post away!

To get an idea of my own car system, check out my webpage in my signature. Its not quite all there yet, but its being done. Eventually it'll be turned into a MercedesShop featured car.

Thats enough rambling now, I'm off to time-align my mids to my tweeters.....seeya!!

Brian Drought



------------------
Brian Drought
1991 300CE
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~drought/
ICQ: 2180069

Well let me just jump in with a somewhat off beat question about adding a so-called "surround sound" or digital time delay sound system for my wagon. Is having a customizable echo worth the effort? The change would require the dsp unit plus, I'm told 2 or 3 amplifiers so that the eq on my car's 6 speaker system would be okay. I can't find anywhere to audition this and while I like the idea, doing it on faith isn't for me. Plus there's the problem of where to hide 4 more heat producing electronic boxes. I bought a Sony (don't remember the model number) am/fm/cd player to replace the Becker system because it would accommodate this type of add-on, but haven't followed through.

Any comments or suggestions?

…tracy

[bdrought]

Well, time delay units are very different to surround souns units. Try listening to music on a home pro-logic setup. The results are odd to say the least. Time alignment (delay) systems like Alpines PXA-H600 and H400 are designed to compensate for an off center listening position. That is, it adds delay to the closest speakers, so that the sound of a drum say arrives at your ears at the same time. This gives a far better soundstage, so you feel more immersed in the sound. The system in my car uses time alignment extensively on all the speakers, which are all in the front (apart from the sub). Auditioning one is obviously a good idea, but even if you buy one, you *will* like it. They tend to give the system a much more 'accurate' and lifelike sound.

for more info on time alignment and the PXA-600 in particular, check out
http://www.alpine.com.au/promo/tpsound.html

Some very useful material there.

Anymore questions, feel free to ask ;-)

Brian



------------------
Brian Drought
1991 300CE
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~drought/
ICQ: 2180069

Thanks for your response. I checked out the link you referenced and found some interesting reading. I forgot that I have a pro-logic system in my TV room so went down with a few CD's and gave a listen. Under some circumstances I think the time delay to the rear channels sounds really nice! Especially with coral, symphony, and some of the stuff from my favorite bands. If the delay is set too long, or the rear speakers are too loud there will be some odd echoed effects.

What I found interesting about the Alpine "time alignment" system is that it makes an attempt to correct for some shortcomings in the listening environment of the average car. In honesty, I'd doubt that anyone could tell the time delay between the front and rear speakers (or left and right) on an average car or station wagon environment, but if a system could tune the sound so that the shortcomings of the environment could be compensated for, that would go a long way to make for a more enjoyable listening environment.

My supposition about doubting the utility of time delay in this circumstance is based on sound traveling roughly a 1,000 feet per second. In a car with 10 feet of space between a speaker and the driver's ear this means that sound would travel from the speaker to the driver in very little time. I could be wrong. OTOH, if it can augment the effects, to provide a sound like a different listening environment (such as a concert hall) that would be pretty cool! If it could do this plus augment or attenuate as needed certain frequencies that would make for an awesome system!

Thanks again for your response. I've got to find an alpine dealer with this system setup!

…tracy

[bdrought]

The Alpine unit does do a lot of very good bass 'equalisation' which really gives a much fuller and flatter response.

With regards to the time alignment, the human brain can easily percieve differences as small as 0.1ms between left and right sides of a car. Try this: Play your home system at a reasonable level with some female vocal thats got a good center image. Standing in the middle, listen. Then move to one side. I bet even 1ft or 2ft movement totally flattens the soundstage. This is to do with the time delay and path difference. With a time alignment circuit, you can compensate for an off center seating position as in a car (unless you're lucky enough to own a McLaren F1!!), and still generate a fantastic center image (right above the central air vents!).

Anyway, find a dealer with a PXA600, or try to go to an IASCA event (www.iasca.com) and listen to one in a competition car.

Brian



------------------
Brian Drought
1991 300CE
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~drought/
ICQ: 2180069