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  #1  
Old 07-18-2002, 01:02 PM
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Zaino VS Meguiars Comparison

Let me begin by saying that I am the least biased person nor do I have favorotism when it comes to automobile polish. That said I found something very interesting that I wanted to share with forum members.

A bit of backround. My car is a 92 Pearl Black MB and the paint would be considered to be "Good Shape" but not perfect. It has minor surface scratches and a bit of etching (a good eye will see them). When I purchased the car I used a clay bar on the entire car after a dawn wash. Here is where the comparison starts.

I applied the Z1 according to directions and then applied 4 coats of Z5. Finally I've applied 3 coats of Z2 with the last one around 1 week ago. Keep in mind I haven't driven the car in over a week and its kept in the garage.

Yesterday I had a meeting with Meguiars and Mike Phillips was kind enough to do a few comparison tests of three of their products on top of the Zaino that was there. Here is what I found with each product.

Test 1. The first product was the Meguiars Liquid Medallion Premium Paint Protection. This was applied to 1/3 of the hood and was left to sit approximately 1 hour. The wax was very easy to apply and remove, almost as easy as the Zaino although a bit more product was used. After wiping the surface I was not super impressed by the results. It seemed to leave a haze over the paint and didn't have the reflective qualities of the Zaino. Mike stated that is worked best on Black cars from his own testing. Read On.........

Test 2. The second product was Meguiars Gold Class Clear Coat Liquid Car Wax. This was applied onto 1/3 of the hood as well and was allowed to dry 1 hour. This also wiped off very easy, not quite as easy as the Zaino or Medallion but easy enough. But when I finished wiping I stood back in complete shock. You could see a perfect line where the Gold Class and Zaino met each other. The Meguiars was a much much deeper richer and more reflective surface. I couldn't believe it. I've had this product sitting in my garage forever and never though it would look better than the Zaino.

Test 3. The final test used (a new formula product) Meguiars Cleaner Wax for clear coat. This was applied onto 1/2 of my trunk and allowed to dry for 30 minutes. After wiping this product which was extremely easy to remove I could not tell any difference between it and the Zaino. Same reflective qualities and depth of shine. I believe this can be found in most Auto Parts Stores

Please feel free to ask any questions and obviously come to your own conclusions. I've already decided that Gold Class is my favorite and the remainder of the Zaino is for my wifes car!
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  #2  
Old 07-18-2002, 02:27 PM
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Very interesting. I didn't do a clean side-by-side comparison like yours, but I have a brand new brilliant silver E320 and I too wanted to try Zaino. I washed with Dawn, did not clay it, and over the course of a couple weeks I put on 3 layers of Z5 (used the ZFX so did not need to start with Z1 a/c Zaino's directions), followed by another 2 coats of Z2+ZFX, and lastly another coat of Z2 (no ZFX) last weekend. Used high quality cotton terry, and even microfiber cloth on the last waxing. It's a very impressive shine, but...

During the same time period I also did both my wife's dark blue '99 Volvo wagon and my dark green 95 Ford Explorer with Meguiar's Cleaner Wax (didn't clay either one of them). I used a $20 random orbital buffer from WalMart with a terry bonnett to remove the wax and buff. Each car was only done once, and I can tell you the labor savings was considerable. I have to take into account the fact that these darker colors are going to show a shine better, but the Volvo looks every bit as deep and reflective as the E320. The Ford was a little further gone before its waxing, but it too looked great and even though the E320 kicked that poor guy out of the garage and it is getting fouled with nature's detritus it still looks impressive.

I keep hearing that Mequiar's may not last as long Zaino's, but so far (about one month on the Volvo and a little longer on the Ford) I think I'll stick with the Mequiar's Cleaner wax on the Volvo & Ford and let time determine which way to go with the E320.
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  #3  
Old 07-18-2002, 02:34 PM
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beevly,

Certainly a very good point of view. As far as paint protection I might have to agree with you regarding Zaino vs Meguiars. I've had Zaino on my wifes new CRV for 3.5 months and it still cleans up well and is smooth to the touch. I would say Meguiars would last about 2.5 months under the same conditions. Beading is good but after yesterday's talk with Meguiars I realize beading has nothing to do with protection!

Since I'm a little crazy I tend to wax my car at least twice a month if not more so protection is not the issue for me. I'd be curious to see how the Meguiars comes out on your Mercedes though, you might be surprised. By the way the cleaner wax is no comparison to the Gold Class IMHO.
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  #4  
Old 07-18-2002, 02:47 PM
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thanks, I did kind of inadvertantly gloss over the differences you noted between the 2 Mequiar's waxes. I was using the cleaner wax, but also have an unopened bottle of the Gold Class liquid which I will try next time on the Volvo & Ford. Both are available at WalMart, very handy.

Could you elaborate on the point that water beading up is not necessarily indicative of a wax's protective properties?
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  #5  
Old 07-18-2002, 02:56 PM
Keith Lucy
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What should I use?

My car is badly in need of a solid waing, but I not not have 5 days to accomplish it, I could probably arrange 3 hours. As you can see below, it's black, and it's large. What is my best bet for overall protection and shine?

Also, what are the board's recommendations regarding chrome polish?
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  #6  
Old 07-18-2002, 02:57 PM
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beevly,

Well, I can't really say I'm very knowledged in the science and formula's of waxes or as I would call them "protectants". But when I spoke to Mike he stated that beading is not necessarily formulated into a wax/protectant but it can be. He went further to say that in the past they have reformulated their waxes to create the beading of paint however this doesn't necessarily change the amount or length of protection.

My thoughts are that beading isn't a great thing to have on car paint. Personally I would rather have a slick surface that promotes the water to coalesce and run off the car and not create tiny droplets.

I'll try and get Mike to reply to your question in more detail. I wonder if maybe we can get other manufacturers to maybe respond as well so that have several points of view.
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  #7  
Old 07-18-2002, 03:54 PM
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Meguiar's Cleaner Wax - New & Improved version

Hi all,

Working with Placo1 was fun yesterday. His car is actually "Immaculate" and highly detailed.

In the past, water beading ability has not been a characteristic that is built into our waxes. The reason why is because when the bead of water dries it leaves a water spot, sometimes an etch. The higher or stronger the bead, the more "concentrated" the destructive chemical reaction is, on a smaller footprint, when it etches into the paint.

Recently… Meguiar's reformulated their Cleaner/Wax, (in the Maroon bottle), to wipe on and off easier as well as "Bead" water better and longer, due to customer demand.

About a half hour ago, Mike Pennington, (Meguiar's Director of Training), and I took one of my black demonstration panels, (it's actually a table) with one side painted black, (basecoat clearcoat), the other side straight black lacquer into the training garage and proceeded to restore it's finish.

It was thrashed after being moved down here from Oregon. Lots of deep scratches and light scratches everywhere.

We proceeded to buff it using Meguiar's #85 Diamond Cut Compound, followed by their #82 Swirl Free Polish, both with a rotary buffer, 1400rpm, using the Meguiar's W-7000 foam cutting pad, and the W-7000 foam finishing pad.

After each step we carried the table out into the sun and inspected for a variety of things, like swirl, clarity, thoroughness of scratch removal.

After the two rotary buffer procedures, we went over the lacquer side with Meguiar's #3 Machine Glaze, on a PC, setting 5 using the Meguiar's W-8005 foam polishing pad and on the clear coated side we used the PC, setting 5 new W-8005 polishing pad and the #82 Swirl remover.

All applications were wiped off using the Meguiar's Ultimate Wipe, a microfiber polishing cloth that the fibers themselves have a triangular cross-section unlike the typical round cross-section of everyone else's.

We carried it out into the sun and it had a flawless, swirl free surface.

Now we tested some waxes, nothing to scientific, just applying some waxes, using new foam wax applicator pads, on freshly cleaned and polished black paint.

We tested on each of the sides, Medallion, Gold Class, Meguiar's Cleaner Wax and Zaino #2

Results.

Water Beading
1. Meguiar's Cleaner Wax - Highest beads, water actually "jumped" off while we were sprinkling it on.

2. Zaino #2 High water beads, not as tight, or high as MCW

3. Medallion - Gold Class - not much difference. Note: not formulated to bead water.

Darkest most reflective results

1. Gold Class - very dark, very reflective
2. Meguiar's Cleaner wax - very dark very reflective
3. Medallion - very dark, very reflective
4. Zaino #2 - the least in turning both types of paint dark. Reflectivity good, as good as the rest.

Meguiar's Cleaner Wax can be purchased just about anywhere for around $6.00 for a 16oz bottle. If you want the "Water Beading" feature, make sure there is a "New & Improved" on the front label.

Can be used on any type of paint. Will Clean moderately oxidized finishes, safe for new cars, new paint jobs. Wipes on easy, wipes off incredibly easy. Excellent choice for "Daily Drivers", cars that are continually exposed to the elements.

More tests coming soon, but for $6.00 for the Meguiar's Cleaner Wax and $10.00 for the Gold Class, both in 16oz bottles, at a minimum, they would appear to be a good deal. Can be purchase locally at any auto parts store.

Two thin coats are better than one. After three coats of anybody's product I would question any "layering" effect.

Pretty soon you would be applying coats of wax on top of coats of wax. If your wax isn't as clear as water, then you would be "dulling" the surface.

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

Mike Phillips
Meguiar's Inc.
1-800-854-8073 ext. 189
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  #8  
Old 07-18-2002, 04:06 PM
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I used to use the Meguiar's cleaner\wax but I've noticed it leaves fine swirl kind of marks on my black car when the sun shines on it just right.
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  #9  
Old 07-18-2002, 04:12 PM
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The cleaner wax is non-abrasive, chemical only.

It is a blend of chemcal cleaners, synthetic wax and conditioning oils for the paint.

Could be from your applicator or removal cloth.

Typically, for black cars a pure wax like the #26 or polish wax like the Gold Class will leave a more clear finish.

Just something to consider.

For $6.00 a bottle however, the Meguar's cleaner wax is no slouch.

YMMV

Mike
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  #10  
Old 07-18-2002, 04:18 PM
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Re: Zaino VS Meguiars Comparison

Quote:
Originally posted by placo1
Test 2. The second product was Meguiars Gold Class Clear Coat Liquid Car Wax. This was applied onto 1/3 of the hood as well and was allowed to dry 1 hour. This also wiped off very easy, not quite as easy as the Zaino or Medallion but easy enough. But when I finished wiping I stood back in complete shock. You could see a perfect line where the Gold Class and Zaino met each other. The Meguiars was a much much deeper richer and more reflective surface. I couldn't believe it. I've had this product sitting in my garage forever and never though it would look better than the Zaino.
I believe Gold Class tints the finish a little, therefore it stands out on dark paint giving a deep and richer appearance. It is to my understanding that Zaino is formulated to be "optically clear", therefore, its weakness on dark finish is lack of depth; however the reflection is really sharp. I believe Gold Class is the most reflective wax in Meguiar's line, but my only concern is the durability. I believe you will lose that "deepness" after 3 washes. Of course, if you don't mind waxing every month or so this should not be a problem.
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Old 07-18-2002, 04:52 PM
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Optically Clear

I guess since Zaino makes their wax optically clear, there is no way a Major polish and wax comany that has been in the business for over 100 years, working with the Paint Manufactures from around the world could ever make an optically clear wax.

Nope, couldn't happen.

Only a guy who "used" to paint cars can do that.

Not people who work with the paint manufactures. Not people who's core business is producing a "Complete" line nof cleaners, polishes and waxes, including Mold Release Waxes which is "science unto itself".

I guess only guys who used to paint cars can understand chemistry, not Phd Chemists, like ours.

Define "Optically Clear"

In the bottle all waxes are opaque, not clear.

When applied, unless microscopically thin, they still are not clear. #26 is quite clear when applied and it doesn't dry white. It is optically clear.

I will check with one of our chemists about what makes a wax "optically clear" .......... or not.

Mike
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Old 07-18-2002, 05:39 PM
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Re: Optically Clear

Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Phillips
I guess since Zaino makes their wax optically clear, there is no way a Major polish and wax comany that has been in the business for over 100 years, working with the Paint Manufactures from around the world could ever make an optically clear wax.
Mike
Wow. I never meant to imply that a major polish & wax company with long history cannot make their wax optically clear. Sure they can. I just re-read my post again and still not sure how you got this idea. Sorry if I'm not been very clear in the post as I didn't think you would be so sensitive. Maybe optically "perfect" would be a better word.

Yes, I understand all waxes are opqaue in bottle and unless microscopically thin when applied, they are not clear, but what I meant was the reflection from the paint after the wax are buffed off (not while still on the car). Again, I apologize if I wasn't been clear in the previous post.

Again, what I was saying is, Gold Class seem to tint the paint a little, therefore it stands out on dark finish making it look deep and rich. Zaino seems to be more optically perfect; therefore lack some depth but offer sharp reflection. Please remember that this is all very subjective opinion from my untrained eyes. I am not a professional detailer, nor do I work for a major wax company. Just opinion and personal experience from a detailing enthusiast. Please don't take this the wrong way. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I was just replying to Placo1's post. As he was saying and I quote

" Please feel free to ask any questions and obviously come to your own conclusions. I've already decided that Gold Class is my favorite and the remainder of the Zaino is for my wifes car! "

Thanks.
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Old 07-18-2002, 05:57 PM
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I use a small cotton rag to apply and cotton towels and old shirts to remove, and maybe don't wash them enough
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  #14  
Old 07-18-2002, 06:01 PM
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I've been on Meguiar's website, and I know that they recommend thick terry cloth towels for removing product.
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  #15  
Old 07-18-2002, 06:13 PM
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Optically Clear?

Hi all,

William420,

I'm sorry if I came off being sensitive or taking anything you wrote personally, I didn't and I don't.

Read my signature at the end of any of my posts.

I see the word "Optically Clear", or now "Optically Perfect" used in reference to Zaino all of the time, all because Zaino claims it is optically clear.

Which... it may be... what ever optically clear means, and specifically what meaning Zaino attributes to it.

Gold Class and #26 are both very clear waxes. Gold Class is advertised as the most reflective wax in our 100 + year history.

I don't want to start an entire discussion on one of it's unique features, but... suffice to say, it has an ingredient(s) that does something very unique in the world of automotive waxes.

It has to do with its "Reflective" characteristics. Since Meguiar's invented this feature, it is safe to say no other wax has it.

I often see Zaino fans proclaiming how long a coat of Zaino lasts, but in the same sentence admitting how often they apply it. It doesn't matter how long a wax lasts if you apply it often. It just becomes somewhat of a silly argument.

At the upcoming Mercedes workshop, I will let people test anything I have in my office on my black paint panels. We will let the products speak for themselves.

Frankly, I just don't see it. I have applied Zaino, as well as many other waxes on black paint, both single stage and basecoat clear coats over the last 12 years, and in my eyes, Zaino isn't any better than most. It did nothing spectacular just a few hours ago on virgin black paint.

Your mileage may vary...

Mike
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