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  #1  
Old 03-06-2005, 08:06 PM
billrei's Avatar
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Japanese Cars Dominate CU Report

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/BUSINESS/03/05/cars.survey.reut/index.html

Yipes!! I thought the US and Europe had caught up. Guess I was wrong...

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  #2  
Old 03-06-2005, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billrei
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/BUSINESS/03/05/cars.survey.reut/index.html

Yipes!! I thought the US and Europe had caught up. Guess I was wrong...
That's the same people who said not to buy the 4L Jeep Charokee because it was unreliable. That '87 Jeep is still running strong at 200,000 miles with NO repairs other then normal wear items like brakes, 1 water pump, etc. These are the same chaps that listed the A4 VW Jetta as trouble cars. They have a high reliablity record in diesel cars as far as I have been able to see on the TDI forum, and we never had a problem with our Jetta. And If memory serves me I have read some where that they had a low opinion in the '70's of MB 220D.
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  #3  
Old 03-06-2005, 08:21 PM
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I wonder if some companies are paid off to report certain results???
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  #4  
Old 03-06-2005, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldnavy
That's the same people who said not to buy the 4L Jeep Charokee because it was unreliable. That '87 Jeep is still running strong at 200,000 miles with NO repairs other then normal wear items like brakes, 1 water pump, etc. These are the same chaps that listed the A4 VW Jetta as trouble cars. They have a high reliablity record in diesel cars as far as I have been able to see on the TDI forum, and we never had a problem with our Jetta. And If memory serves me I have read some where that they had a low opinion in the '70's of MB 220D.
I've never heard much good about the Cherokee's, either body style. And while you love VW's, I sure hear alot of folks having many problems.
If 49 out of 100 is horrible performance, then there were still 51 folks happy with theirs. I assume you have been one of those, and that is good. I hope that luck holds!
Bill, good article. Thanks.
JL

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Old 03-06-2005, 09:11 PM
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Over the years I met very few Cherokee owners with a problem car, as far as VW goes it seems to be problem dealerships.

The problem I always had with the magazine is they always seem to think they are the best source for info on anything, and that may be true, but there is other sources.

I have a friend that has never bought anything without consulting CR, even disreguarding his friends advice or experiences. He will often ask my opinion about electronic/computer things, but knowing him like I do, I always tell him check the magazines.
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  #6  
Old 03-06-2005, 09:22 PM
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Consumer reports is a good company, and I put a fairly high value on their reports.

They really don't accept any gifts or donations from companies, unlike just about every "automotive" rag out there.

That said, remember that a statistic is just a statistic. They aren't saying, "Every VW breaks every time" and that knowing one person with a perfect VW makes them a liar. Their reports are based on real numbers of people actually driving their real cars in to get actual repairs done. Vehicles with low scores break more. That doesn't mean every one of those vehicles will break, just that they are more likely to.

Japanese cars are very reliable. Very reliable. Yes, they still break, like all cars, but reliability is something they've nailed. My girlfriend has put hundreds of thousands of miles on several Subaru's with no unscheduled maintainence (and very little preventative maintainence). The numbers do not lie.

If you are shopping for a car you need to take into account more than just the reliability number. VWs have serious reliability problems, but when you look into it, its mostly stuff like window regulators, not transmissions. Is that something you can live with the possibility of in order to gain the other benefits of that vehicle? Perhaps so!

And we ***** every day here about the declining quality of MB vehicles! Does it just pain us to hear someone else say it instead of hearing it from each other?

Consumer Reports isn't lying here, they are just presenting simple facts, based on real numbers. You don't have to follow their recommendations though, because they don't take every aspect of vehicle ownership into account, but don't be mad at them for being straight-up about vehicle reliability.

peace,
sam
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  #7  
Old 03-07-2005, 06:04 AM
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Sam,

It's as if you read my mind. Well said. I was going to post all that. Here's one thing I was going to post in addition: make sure you know your definition of reliability and "trouble." Last year the three most common consumer complaints about cars were: wind and road noise, confusing and complex controls and high fuel consumption. Are any of these problems? NO!! These are the things that make a vehicle what it is. An AMG car that doesn't gulp fuel is rubbish. You can't deliver 500HP without being a gas guzzler. Confusing and complex controls? Geez... when you ordered heated seats, distronic, parktronic, adjustable air suspension, cooled seats, massaging seats, power everything, voice activated navigation screen... where you expecting simplicity?

Yes, the Japanese lead. I think their system of making cars just allows them to make more reliable cars. No contest there. However, be sure to read into the exact details of problems for each car and/or brand. Consumer Reports details them each time. I remember in 2002 they didn't recommend the Ford Explorer because, while it performed excellently in all other categories, it didn't do too well on the "transmission category" and they had ranked that as one of the most important categories. So, here's my question: if you purchased an Explorer with a manual transmission, would this apply to you? NO. So then, to you, the Ford Explorer would have excellent reliability. And also, even if you purchased it with an automatic transmission, if you are prepared to have to take the car back to the dealership for a warranty claim on a failed transmission, then does the "not recommended" rating apply to you? NO. Additionally, the Lincoln Navigator has been the "least reliable" vehicle for three years now. I've asked more Lincoln Navigator owners about it than I care to remember, as I was once interested in the car myself. Each person I speak to expresses surprise at that. One man even told me "that's lies... the only problems I've had were my side mirror adjustment stopped working, my power running boards wouldn't deploy one day and my heated seats didn't work once. But the dealership fixed all that stuff promptly and I can't complain." Right there he listed three problems but to him they aren't anything at all. I guess either he feels those are such tiny issues that they didn't matter (remember, none of those problems rendered the car inoperable) or he loves the car so much that his love overshadows any problems he experiences.

Just be sure to read every detail.
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  #8  
Old 03-07-2005, 06:45 AM
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While I agree that Consumer Reports is generally accurate, one must read the reports in depth, as has been stated earlier.

I owned several appliance stores in the 70's and 80's. Many customers would bring in CR looking for the recommended appliances. We would find many of the reasons CR rated an appliance as "Best" as laughable. Often they would give the "Best" rating to units that we recognized as the biggest pieces of crap on the market, but when we read the report in depth, we would usually see why they rated it so high. It's just that their reasons were not based on criteria we found to be relevant. And many times we knew that the expected life span of the particular appliance they applauded was only half that of another unit. Or because it had a dispenser for canned beverages they found it superior. Because it used $3.00 less electricity a year it was considered "Best". Of course, you would probably be replacing in six or seven years instead of thirteen or fourteen, or more. On one occasion that I recall, they rated a refrigerator the "Best Buy". We were in the process of dropping that brand of appliance at that time because the exact unit they recommended had a forty percent failure rate by the second year of operation. That failure rate was not just in our experience, but was in the industry at large. The company no longer produces appliances under that brand name. This type of recommendation error is not typical, but I have found it often enough to make me take CR reports with a grain of salt.

Consumer Reports can be a valuable tool, but by no means should everything they report be considered the final word, or should one rely on them exclusively. Read the reports carefully to see if they are relevant and check other sources for more info.
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  #9  
Old 03-07-2005, 10:06 AM
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I don't put much stock in what Consumer Reports rates as better. As a few of you have noted, surveys of other owners seemed to be a more reliable source. Some of their ideas can be a little bizaar and it seems that they tend to focus on one detail and harp on it.

As for CNN, their news is so slanted I go to another source before I believe anything they say.
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  #10  
Old 03-07-2005, 10:18 AM
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Another thing is the owner. People on forums like us tend to take more care of their car than others. I have been on other forums and seen cars that do well with proper maintenance and the same types of cars can be screwed up by people who think maintenance is something done once the car breaks down. for instance, if you only top up your oil and never change a thing, if it breaks, who do you blame? Chances are you blame DCX, GM, Ford, etc, etc. I know they only rate newer cars but new cars have problems if you don't take care of them too.
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  #11  
Old 03-07-2005, 10:43 AM
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I think if you are looking at a car as an appliance, as something that gets you from point A to point B with minimal fuss then the Japanese cars win hands down. I always thought of these cars as having no character or soul. I guess it must be a generational thing as legends of young buyers are as fanatical about Honda vs. Toyota as their dads were about Ford vs. Chevy. It's probably only a matter of time before either Ford or GM follows Daimler-Chrysler's lead to become Toyota-Ford or Honda-GM...
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  #12  
Old 03-07-2005, 12:20 PM
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ON, VW's foibles as of late have been the coil packs on the gasser cars, as well as the window regulators in the top of the line cars. These are well documented issues, that have really hit VW hard in the reliability department. Adding to this are the technodazzle gizmos that they're packing in the Phaeton and Toureg. The TDI's have had MAP sensor failures as well as the "103" relay failure. While I like the VW TDI, you have to buy a simply equipped model to be able to buy a reliable car from VW, and that TDI is about the only bright spot they have going for them at current.
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  #13  
Old 03-07-2005, 01:10 PM
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Billrei you may just be hitting the nail on the head there on the Multi-national merger thing.

Diesel Power it was the MAF & relay 109 for the TDI, along with those windows falling down. What was sad was the MAF & relay was a supplier failure from not supplying propper spect part and so many were used. The window regulator was a VW goof-up caused by bean counters, when a $5 part was replaced by $0.50 part. What was funny was with the MAF & Relay 109, was only about 1 in 100 cars were effected. However the window thing hit all cars after a pertictuliar build date until VW was able to make the production change.

The failure of VW to do a recall was a real PIA to owners who had to take a car in with a failure to have the correct parts installled, I know as we were in that group. Yes we bought the car knowing about the window problem, and we live a 185 miles from the dealership. That was the only problem we ever had with our 2 VW TDI's.
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  #14  
Old 03-07-2005, 08:18 PM
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It is simple really Japanese cars will run for a very long time with little money outlay. A $20k Camry, Accord, Maxima will give you 10 years of good service on regular maintaince, after that who cares dump it. They next guy can drive it into the junkyard 5-10 years later. Will a $52k E320 last longer? No not really they start eating parts at the 10 year mark to. At the 20 year mark the MB is worth putting money into because it is a nicer car but still things wear out.

A $500 repair on a Japanese car is a big deal, on a MB it is a drop in the bucket.
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  #15  
Old 03-08-2005, 02:46 AM
Brandon314159
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1990 Jeep Cherokee 5-speed 4.0L
240K miles and the engine was finally tired enough to warrent a rebuild.

I always walk through the wrecking yards looking at cars. You see the jeep sections and start looking at the miles on the undamaged ones...the late 80's and early 90's...
Then you predict which engine it has.

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