Just Venting @#!@ Diesel Fuel Price - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

kip Foss · #31 10-25-2005, 02:03 PM

I hate to burst you guy's bubble but this is what is called capiltalism. They have it and you want it. It is only nasty government regulation enacted by those despicable pinko leftiss Democrats that keeps this gouging from happening more often. It is the Republicans, those paragons of capitalistic virtue, that have allowed industry to manipulate or downright skirt government rules designed to prevent exactly what you are complaining about.

Tell me why Diesel fuel in Corpus, where we have about 10 refineries, costs more than in San Antonio where they don't have any refineries? The answer is that it is more costly because the oil companies can charge it and the Texas Republican congress lets them get away with it. Thanks again Gov. Rick Perry.

aklim · #32 10-25-2005, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kip Foss

I hate to burst you guy's bubble but this is what is called capiltalism. They have it and you want it. It is only nasty government regulation enacted by those despicable pinko leftiss Democrats that keeps this gouging from happening more often. It is the Republicans, those paragons of capitalistic virtue, that have allowed industry to manipulate or downright skirt government rules designed to prevent exactly what you are complaining about.

Tell me why Diesel fuel in Corpus, where we have about 10 refineries, costs more than in San Antonio where they don't have any refineries? The answer is that it is more costly because the oil companies can charge it and the Texas Republican congress lets them get away with it. Thanks again Gov. Rick Perry.

Lets see, if you buy a widget from me and you are nearer to me I sell it for less? So if I were in AL I should get an M-Class for less because they are making it there?

#33 10-25-2005, 02:43 PM

So kip, if I understand your message correctly, you are criticizing government for ALLOWING companies to charge for their goods. So what do you propose to prevent this? Are you advocating price controls? If so, how long do you think companies will continue to provide products if there is no profit involved?

I don't know what business you are in, but whatever it is, how long would it last if the government restricted how much you could charge for your goods/service?

Have a great day,
Doc

Old300D · #34 10-25-2005, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kip Foss

I hate to burst you guy's bubble but this is what is called capiltalism. They have it and you want it. It is only nasty government regulation enacted by those despicable pinko leftiss Democrats that keeps this gouging from happening more often. It is the Republicans, those paragons of capitalistic virtue, that have allowed industry to manipulate or downright skirt government rules designed to prevent exactly what you are complaining about.

Tell me why Diesel fuel in Corpus, where we have about 10 refineries, costs more than in San Antonio where they don't have any refineries? The answer is that it is more costly because the oil companies can charge it and the Texas Republican congress lets them get away with it. Thanks again Gov. Rick Perry.

It's not called "capitalism". It's called "government supported monopoly". Did the energy bill completely escape your notice? A complete giveaway to the oil companies when they are making record profits. And people complain about poor people getting a handout when the rich get massive give-aways? Stupidity.

#35 10-25-2005, 03:52 PM

Anti trust laws deal with price fixing, not price LIMITING. If the oil companies or competitors in any other business get together and agree on a price to charge they are in violation of anti trust laws and should be prosecuted.

These laws do NOT limit what someone can charge for a product. The prices on anything will typically be close because the market will determine what price it will bear, BUT if I want to open a station and charge $20 a gallon for gas I am free, and should be free, to do so. What will happen, however, is that 99.9% of the population will be smart enough to buy their gas elsewhere.

This is something totally different than the government dictating what can be charged for a product or service as kip thinks the Texas governor should do.

Have a great day,

bill murrow · #36 10-25-2005, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryBible

dannym,

In case you didn't notice, there were offshore rigs AND refineries damaged by the hurricanes. Are the oil companies just supposed to give away their product at a loss when they can't replace it? If you believe that, you are living in the wrong country. You need to find one with a pure communist government.

Although crude oil is in reasonably good supply, the world demand has increased in places other than the US. That is the DEMAND part of "supply and demand." Additionally, thanks to extreme environmental regulations, no new refineries have been constructed in years and years. Limited refinery capacity is where the supply problem bottleneck is found here in the US.

Have a great day,

Larry, you hit it right on the head with these two paragraphs. Especially when it comes to our refining capacity. During the Clinton years economists predicted shortages and/or high prices if no new refineries were built. Clinton sided with the tree huggers and now here we are at $3 a gallon.

We should be thankful that we don't have shortages, just high prices. I certainly remember the long lines at the pumps in the 70's. Lets not forget odd/even. What a pain that was.

You're a sharp guy Mr. Bible. Falls on deaf ears in some cases...or should I say blind eyes.

Cheers,

Bill

Wes Bender · #37 10-25-2005, 04:08 PM

Anyone involved with buying/selling commodities (such as fuel) has to base the selling price on its replacement cost. If they didn't they wouldn't be around long. This can result in some pretty sharp increases when something comes along and restricts product availability. Unfortunately, this doesn't always apply when wholesale prices drop. The supply/demand system, along with buyer preferences (for buying a lower-priced product), however, will eventually bring it back down.

(I'm reminded of the hardware man who bought 25 kegs of nails and marked them up with a reasonable profit. After they had been sold, he found he only had enough money to buy 20 kegs of nails.)

I think Larry has hit the nail on the head in his posts on this thread. There will always be those, however, that think that government should step in any time prices go up faster than they want them to, and they will usually be venting on the subject.

Until heating oil and diesel prices come back down to what I want to pay, I'll be driving the Austin-Healey (or the Tacoma) more and getting about 26 mpg.

just my $.02,
Wes

meltedpanda · #38 10-25-2005, 04:10 PM

All I wanted to do was vent

, did not know this subject would prove so flamable
Vent on......

Old300D · #39 10-25-2005, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wes Bender

I think Larry has hit the nail on the head in his posts on this thread. There will always be those, however, that think that government should step in any time prices go up faster than they want them to, and they will usually be venting on the subject.

just my $.02,
Wes

I'd like the government to step out. I don't want my tax dollars funding this give-away.

#40 10-25-2005, 05:16 PM

dannym,

Yes indeed it is a free market! It has been ever since Rockefellers Standard Oil was busted up thanks to anti trust laws. Actually it seems like I remember something about that issue being what led to anti trust laws but I may very well be wrong about that. It hasn't been a monopoly since.

I REALLY want you to explain to me how $3 a gallon is considered price gouging! You sir, are just completely spoiled from the oil companies being able to hold their prices at about the same level for the last 25 years. Now that, due to events out of their control, they have to raise their prices to a level that is STILL lower than if they had been adjusting price for inflation every year, you are squealing like a pig caught under a gate.

Also if you are so keen on anti-trust laws, how is an industry consisting of multiple, independent companies a monopoly? Yes when the only phone company in town was AT&T it was a monopoly. How many different brand service stations are there in your town? Unless you live in a one service station village, I fully expect that there are several different signs in front of those establishments.

You can BET that there are PLENTY of people doing everything but making things up, trying to catch these oil companies price fixing. Whoever nails them on that one will probably be considered a national hero. Are you enough of a cynic that you think that they're all just part of one big conspiracy? I wouldn't be surprised if your answer to that one is yes. If so, you need to get a grip on life.

As far as my poor example in which I was trying to explain to you about a free market, my hypothetical service station was an independent business that is free to charge whatever he likes as long as he is NOT part of a monopoly or price fixing with his competitors.

You need to realize that we are lucky to have fuel prices as low as they are. Go drive around Europe and see how much it costs to buy gas. I would suggest that you grow up and deal with it, instead of being a cry baby.

Have a great day,

Old300D · #41 10-25-2005, 05:25 PM

Give me a break. I have never complained about fuel prices. But it should be obvious the pricing is fixed. And tax dollars fund record profits. That is wrong. The government is supposed to protect us from the oligarchy, but they are in bed with them. Our whole infrastructure depends on petroleum, and instead of the government helping to develop alternatives and reduce our dependence on it using fuel taxes, they encourage consumption and borrow money to give to oil companies. They do not represent me, and I don't see how they represent you.

#42 10-25-2005, 05:43 PM

Old300D,

I apologize that you thought I was addressing you with my last post. I was not. I went back and addressed it specifically to the person I was speaking to. Sorry 'bout that.

Now then, since you are so convinced and since it is obvious that there is price fixing on fuel prices would you please share with me this obvious evidence. If you will share the evidence, then I will share with you the glory of busting them. You will NOT be able to produce such evidence, because if it were there someone would have already done it and beat us to the hero status.

Additionally would you PLEASE share your evidence that the government is involved with some big conspiracy with the oil companies. You probably have this evidence filed away with your UFO pictures. At the same time, where would we be without all those crack pot conspiracy theory websites?

I will be awaiting your evidence.

Have a great day,

andmoon · #43 10-25-2005, 05:48 PM

Hasn't Hawaii put a ceiling on their fuel prices?

deanyel · #44 10-25-2005, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryBible

You need to realize that we are lucky to have fuel prices as low as they are. Go drive around Europe and see how much it costs to buy gas.

Little known fact is that gas prices in Europe are lower than in the U.S. excluding taxes, about 10 to 15 percent lower last time I checked. Of course one can argue that they have the north sea but we have the gulf and Texas, OK, etc.

The Sherman Antitrust act was passed in 1890. It's called the anti-trust act because horizontal competitors were being bought up by trusts, which then set prices for the competitors and the entire industry. Free market competition generally works pretty well but not as well in times of limited supply - like now. But high prices should bring more supply eventually.

Antitrust enforcements at the federal level is not very consistent depending on what party is in the white house. Republican Justice Departments are not so good at challenging mergers or bringing price fixing cases. The oil industry in one that has consolidated tremendously in recent years. And Republicans administrations tend not to file many price fixing cases. Democrats and Europeans are much more active in this regard. Microsoft was convicted during a Democratic administration, sent home with a slap on the wrist by a Republican adminstration, and then effectively punished in Europe.

jcyuhn · #45 10-25-2005, 06:02 PM

Hawaii put in place a cap on the wholesale price of gasoline, not the retail price. Here's the official website explaining it: http://hawaii.gov/dcca/areas/dca/gascap. They set a new price cap every week. Don't know how it's been working for them. I suppose if they set the cap too low, the refiners will just sell all the gas elsewhere, where it can fetch more money. Sounds like the free market wins again.

Price controls were imposed on oil during the 1973 crisis. I suggest you read about the impact of those controls - they substantially worsened the fuel shortage by giving oil companies economic incentive to pull fuel off the market, rather than sell it for below-market prices. At least right now we have adequate fuel.

BTW, if you think the oil companies are making too much money, I suggest you purchase some stock in them and hence participate in all the moneymaking. There's been some nice appreciation in the share values of late, and the divident yields have always been very good.

- JimY