As I remember you need too install the IP at the 24 degree BTDC mark on the crank balancer not TDC

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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

Ok just got back from the garage .... cam and crankshaft are fine , i just checked, anyway its easier then ip removal...what i did is i got mark to 0 TDC compression stroke-cams were facing up,so i removed the chain and tried to rotate camshaft 180 degrees..a a a ...cam vent half a way - exhaust valve was hitting piston ...so i guess i installed it right the first time ...
It's time for a pump to come off...but oil filter housing has to come off first...those 5 bolts---......so little room to work...
I'm on my way to SEARS now to buy 6 mm longest wrench ....one of the bolts ,thats in the middle,unaccessible ,i already cut off 1cm of Allen 6mm to fit smallest ratchet but even that didn't help ,i'll use this cut off for the wrench ,hope i'll succeed....
No one has answered my Question so far , about IP removal---will i have to lock it?, Or just set at 24 BTDC take OH off and pull out ip-realign marks and put it back ?
Thank you.

No. What would be the point in locking it in the wrong place?

Well i asked because on CD i have two variants one removing /installing ip,second installing IP with locking nut --- with steps set at -15 atdc ,2nd step put mark 4th tooth to the right,after mark ....
Thats why im asking.

Just set the crank to 24 BTDC, line up the IP notch with the mark and reinstall the IP. (Assuming that you don't have one of the mismarked IP's.) Then drip time, before reinstalling the oil filter housing.

I guess if you're bent on removing the ip, then go ahead and do it. If cam and crank are "fine" I don't see how you don't know ip is fine as well. Why not at least take the little springs and stuff out of the #1 shot in the ip and rotate the motor and see when it squirts or wells up. If it squirts at something like 34deg, that means it'll drip at somewhere near 24deg. Then just loosen it up and time it instead of pulling the whole mess off. I thought for sure my chain had skipped teeth, especially since the ip seems to "lope" on the chain--you rotate the motor and it goes and goes and then all of a sudden the ip "pulls" on the chain for about a 1/4 crank. I guess I'm writing this mostly for the benefit of others who may not be so inclined to pull the ip if not totally necessary. But then again, if pulling more things off the motor doesn't bother you, then by all means....

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1998 E300D, 287k, barely broken in.

Since you are so bent on believing every thing is "fine," please share your explanation as to why the engine runs so poorly.

Well i wrote before that in compression stroke fuel doesn't come out at all , it does when cam lobes are down - 180 degrees off (believe me i would not mind just to turn IP around ),this thing came unexpected , i have tons of work to do on s320 ,but cant because w126 has to come out first from garage.
thanks for your time

I meant "fine" as in ip and crank are fine. I don't think "everything" is fine--he's the one that said fine on the cam and crank, but I think the cam is the problem. Here's my bottom line and then I promise I'll sit back and eagerly await reading about the conclusion of this project. I honestly believe that it is nearly impossible to skip teeth on crank or ip. Are you certain that you've identified the correct position of the cam lobes on the compression stroke at TDC? Up and down are pretty general terms. IIRC, the first lobe had to point in the general direction of 90deg toward driver's side. Second lobe up? Can't recall, but I'd search and locate a photo.

I contend that the chain did not skip any teeth on the pump or the crank and you're chasing a ghost by removing the ip. All imho. Good night and good luck.

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1998 E300D, 287k, barely broken in.

The cam and pump are 180 degrees out of time with each other is perhaps the simplest way to look at it.
Anyways the quickest way to recify the situation now is to set you crank timing at zero degrees. Remove the pump and turn crankshaft one complete revolution and line up marks again. Then reinstall your pump.
You cannot move the cam itself the 180 degrees it needs now in relation to the pump as it would cause valve interference well before you got there. Unless you completly removed the cam followers and turned the cam the required 180 degrees with the chain off of the cam sprocket.
Think about it. Easier to remove the pump. Just before doing your new drip test make sure cam lobes are pointing up. If not turn engine crank one complete turn before you start to do the new drip test.

In hindsight I agree that this is the best remedy. It would theoretically be possible to find the point at which none of the cylinders are near enough TDC to turn the cam without the valves interfering but it is probably just easier to pull the IP off, turn the crank 360 degrees and reinstall it. It will get you where you need to be. The mistake you made, as you now know, was turning the engine 360 degrees after you removed the head. That put the IP 180 degrees out of time with the head when you re-intalled it. The same thing would have happened with the distributor on a gasser. It's always good to remember basic operation of the engine when you take it apart...it would be easy to overlook this small detail but look on the bright side...you didn't do any permanent or non-reversable damage.

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Marty D.

2013 C300 4Matic
1984 BMW 733i
2013 Lincoln MKz

In order for that to work, the IP would need to be exactly 180 degrees off. Why bother with turning the crankshaft after removing the IP? If the crank is set to 24 degrees BTDC on the #1 piston compression stroke, the IP can be set likewise (using the marks which exist for that express purpose) and then reinstalled. That would eliminate any existing IP timing error and eliminate any need to turn the crank.

What is the point of turning the crank when you have the IP in your hand?

If the cam was installed 180 off, you would not be turning the engine. The vales would hit.

If you did a valve job, and for some reason, why I don't know, turned the engine over while the head was off, the pump is off. It is going to be much less work to just set the engine to TDC, remove the IP, align the marks on the IP, replace the IP gasket and grease both sides so it does not tear when timing the IP. Reinstall the IP and use the low pressure (drip) method to retime the IP. Remember to do two things when timing:
1) Remove all vacuum lines to IP, and make sure the IP is at FULL THROTTLE (and of coarse the cam lobes are "up")
2) Set the IP at 24-23.5 if you have not replaced the chain. If you have replaced the chain, set the pump at 25. When the chain stretches, it retards the timing, i.e., when you loose much power due to IP pump off timing, time to put a chain in .

If the camshaft was 180 degrees off, there would be no problem whatsoever with the valve timing. (The crankshaft being 180 degrees off would be different.)

To illustrate, let's say the the #1 piston is at TDC on the compression stroke. The head is removed, the camshaft is rotated 180 degrees, then the head is reinstalled. The #1 piston is now at TDC on the exhaust stroke. Valve timing is correct. The injection timing is 180 degrees retarded.

Sure about that?