Finally a man with some principles - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

bustedbenz · #1 09-12-2007, 12:02 AM

It's just the idea of 'em I dislike. Cars are supposed to have horsepower, and run on fuel of some kind other than half-electricity. They're just... if we can't have our old monster v-8s and huge diesels anymore, then at least keep it somewhat real.

Let's ask the hybrid people in about ten years what it cost them to replace those huge batteries! I'll keep my petroleum, thanks!

thorsen · #2 09-12-2007, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bustedbenz

It's just the idea of 'em I dislike. Cars are supposed to have horsepower, and run on fuel of some kind other than half-electricity. They're just... if we can't have our old monster v-8s and huge diesels anymore, then at least keep it somewhat real.

Let's ask the hybrid people in about ten years what it cost them to replace those huge batteries! I'll keep my petroleum, thanks!

To each his own. Hybrids have horsepower, and more importantly, torque. I asssure you my Hybrid is very real.

Ask me now what it costs to replace the battery. Mine has a 10 year/150,000 mile warranty. After that, it's same boat you are in now. You can buy a new Mercedes engine for $3 or $4k, or pull one from the junk yard for $500.

I'd put my 1.0 liter, 3 cylinder, automatic transmission Hybrid against your Mercedes diesel. Unless you're driving a new CDI or a 98-up E300, I would win every time.

bustedbenz · #3 09-12-2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorsen

To each his own. Hybrids have horsepower, and more importantly, torque. I asssure you my Hybrid is very real.

Ask me now what it costs to replace the battery. Mine has a 10 year/150,000 mile warranty. After that, it's same boat you are in now. You can buy a new Mercedes engine for $3 or $4k, or pull one from the junk yard for $500.

I'd put my 1.0 liter, 3 cylinder, automatic transmission Hybrid against your Mercedes diesel. Unless you're driving a new CDI or a 98-up E300, I would win every time.

In terms of speed, torque... pretty much driveability... I'm willing to concede the point.

But my main focus is in the person who can only afford to buy one car every fifteen or twenty years or so. In that respect, I'm going with the petroleum fueled diesel because no new cars, diesel or otherwise, are truly being made to last that long. Honestly... with proper maintenance (which I can do myself on the simpler engine) - I'm betting that my already-21-year-old SDL - even with all its problems, will still be on the road if I don't wreck it after at least SOME of these new production hybrids are worn out.

thorsen · #4 09-12-2007, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bustedbenz

In terms of speed, torque... pretty much driveability... I'm willing to concede the point.

But my main focus is in the person who can only afford to buy one car every fifteen or twenty years or so. In that respect, I'm going with the petroleum fueled diesel because no new cars, diesel or otherwise, are truly being made to last that long. Honestly... with proper maintenance (which I can do myself on the simpler engine) - I'm betting that my already-21-year-old SDL - even with all its problems, will still be on the road if I don't wreck it after at least SOME of these new production hybrids are worn out.

I'll agree with you. I would NOT want to own the Hybrid in 20 years.

greasybenz · #5 09-12-2007, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorsen

Ask me now what it costs to replace the battery. Mine has a 10 year/150,000 mile warranty. After that, it's same boat you are in now. You can buy a new Mercedes engine for $3 or $4k, or pull one from the junk yard for $500.

At 150K our diesels are just reaching their prime! your hypebrid will be needing attention by then. Toyota or honda they arent built to last long as most new cars arent as well, they are just throw away cars. Drive em till something goes wrong and flip them for another one. Banks give you loans so easily even with poor or no credit that everybody can afford a nice car but never to invest in it.

Also put your hypebrid side by side to a VW TDI, that would be a better comparison. Build quality and overall reliability(engine wise) is up in the vdub then a toyota or honda. They at least have vinyl dashboards and door-panels, not hard plastic junk you find in all the new cars.

#6 09-12-2007, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greasybenz

At 150K our diesels are just reaching their prime! your hypebrid will be needing attention by then. Toyota or honda they arent built to last long as most new cars arent as well, they are just throw away cars.

a honda or a toyota are the best cars on the US market right now. they last way longer than any benz with less problems and they are easier and cheaper to repair/ maintain. the corolla, the dumbest ugliest car ever made since the yugo, has a timing chain and is virtually indestructible. a Honda, well everybody knows they are good.
mercedes needs 'tinkering' all the time and is really only good if you are really rich or mechanically inclined.
diesel people usually are, so hence there's plenty of diesels still on the road.
The US has no other diesels than mercedes and a few jeeps and vw-junk.
in europe this discussion would be very different. why have a hybrid if you can drive a 70mpg peugeot diesel...

ImBroke · #7 09-13-2007, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henrydupont

a Honda, well everybody knows they are good.

You haven't seen my Honda... I'll be the one person that says that they are not as good as you may think. With the stack of receipts to prove it.

BioPOWER · #8 09-13-2007, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorsen

To each his own. Hybrids have horsepower, and more importantly, torque. I asssure you my Hybrid is very real.

Ask me now what it costs to replace the battery. Mine has a 10 year/150,000 mile warranty. After that, it's same boat you are in now. You can buy a new Mercedes engine for $3 or $4k, or pull one from the junk yard for $500.

I'd put my 1.0 liter, 3 cylinder, automatic transmission Hybrid against your Mercedes diesel. Unless you're driving a new CDI or a 98-up E300, I would win every time.

I win.

So, uhh, how are the performance products for the Prius going?
What's the best chip?

Hmm, get this. Toyota's ignition system on the Prius is called "Toyota Direct Ignition," or TDI for short!
HAH! THEY WISH!!

Thank you, but I'll take my diesel any day over an "AT-PZEV."

Hatterasguy · #9 09-13-2007, 11:46 PM

As usual Clarkson hits the nail on the head, this just about sums the Prius up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdBVwwRgThU

BioPOWER · #10 09-14-2007, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

As usual Clarkson hits the nail on the head, this just about sums the Prius up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdBVwwRgThU

"Uhh, sorry, but I drove one of these things from my house to London, about 70 miles, and I averaged 45 mpg. A normal DIESEL will do better than that. A LOT better! .... I did the same route in a VW Lupo diesel and that did SEVENTY-FIVE miles per gallon."

Well said, Jeremy...well said.
And a top speed of 99 mph? Even the TDI has gone faster than that, and it's no rocketship by any means.

bustedbenz · #11 09-14-2007, 12:19 AM

First of all, HenryD., thorsen, and others, I'm not trying to make this a hybrid bashing party. I respect them, I just... wouldn't own one for myself

An interesting description on that youtube thing... "And here's why. That is a normal 1.5 litre petrol engine which is sometimes used to drive the car, but sometimes it's used to charge the batteries which power... the electric motor"

Yes, I know this effect is minimal. But... just look at the design.

Whenever energy is transferred, efficiency is lost as some of it is lost to heat. So... instead of energy being produced by the gasoline, going directly to power the car, with a first stage loss to engine heat... it's going to the batteries. The electric motor then loses MORE efficiency when IT warms up as it works.

I know that it's such a small effect that it's not noticeable. But still... technically, using the electric engine by means of the gasoline engine means that one gallon of gasoline, used to move the car by itself, gives more efficiency per gallon than that same gallon, used to charge the battery, which is THEN used to move the car.