Pent-up Demand for Diesels in US? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Rich300TDMBZ · #1 09-20-2007, 03:53 PM

Dodge is introducing a crossover to Europe and US - the Dodge Journey. The European version includes a VW diesel engine. What caught my eye was the comments - almost all lamented why the diesel engine is not available here. Is there a pent-up demand for clean diesels here that the US car manufacturers do not see? Are they stupid?
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09/20/dodge-to-bring-journey-to-us/

dawsonj3 · #2 09-20-2007, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich300TDMBZ

Dodge is introducing a crossover to Europe and US - the Dodge Journey. The European version includes a VW diesel engine. What caught my eye was the comments - almost all lamented why the diesel engine is not available here. Is there a pent-up demand for clean diesels here that the US car manufacturers do not see? Are they stupid?
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09/20/dodge-to-bring-journey-to-us/

Manufacturers do understand the demand. However, upcoming US emissions standards will make it very difficult for them to cost effectively produce diesels here. The emission control systems will also reduce the power and efficiency of the diesel engines. There is probably some BS in the mix as well, I'm sure there are parties pushing for these unnecessarily stringent requirements.

Jeremy5848 · #3 09-20-2007, 03:58 PM

It's an education thing. Too many people still think that "diesel" means "slow, noisy, smelly," have to get fuel at truck stops, etc. The American manufacturers, for the most part, just stay in their comfortable rut, selling the stuff they've always sold. Why should they change if they're not required to?

To answer your question, I think that there is some pent-up demand for diesel in this country, but not yet enough.

Jeremy

t walgamuth · #4 09-20-2007, 04:21 PM

The demand would be there if they sold a cost conscious vehicle imho. Mercedes offering only cars for $50k seems ludicrous to me. Try and buy a vw diesel right now. They are about impossible to buy used, almost the same price as new.

My 03 dodge truck with the cummins with 75k on it is worth about 24k now. I paid 30K for it new.

There is diesel demand when the price is right.

Tom W

#5 09-20-2007, 04:56 PM

I agree there is an under-served low-end diesel market, but I'm not sure that benz should go after it. In a few years there will be a bunch of low end diesel available, including cheap ricers. I don't think benz should give up their U.S. market niche to go bottom feeding in the diesel market. If they try to compete on price they will lose.

I'm not even sure they should be selling C-class and ML-class gassers in the U.S. I assume they are in the ML (mini-van) market to try to pick up some sales volume, and that they are in the C-class market to try to get some 20-somethings into their cars (hoping they will upgrade later).

Douglas.Sherida · #6 09-20-2007, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy5848

... many people still think that "diesel" means "slow, noisy, smelly,"...

Jeremy

You mean they aren't?

t walgamuth · #7 09-20-2007, 05:26 PM

NOt the newer ones.

They are not very smelly, not at all noisy and very powerful. Not to mention economical.

Tom W

75Sv1 · #8 09-20-2007, 05:44 PM

There should be some more diesel option by 2010. The new standard set a few companies back. Still, Cummins and Mercedes came up with answers. The Cummins is certified even for the 2010 emmisions. I think cost of diesels is part of the problem. When price of fuel goes up, that extra MPG looks atractive. I wouldn't bury the diesel yet. I think they are behind the gasser emmisions, while gas engines have been working on emmision standards since the mid 70's. Diesels had to take emmision standards sceriously in the mid 90's. A few manufactures stop making engines then. I think this last round claimed a few too. Or at least took them out of certain markets.
Tom

Douglas.Sherida · #9 09-20-2007, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

NOt the newer ones.

They are not very smelly, not at all noisy and very powerful. Not to mention economical.

Tom W

But will they routinely go a million miles?

t walgamuth · #10 09-20-2007, 07:38 PM

As well as ever!

Tom W

LUVMBDiesels · #11 09-20-2007, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy5848

It's an education thing. Too many people still think that "diesel" means "slow, noisy, smelly," have to get fuel at truck stops, etc.

Jeremy

But that's what I LIKE about my Diesel!

Quote:

Originally Posted by diametricalbenz

That still befuddles me because that design went from paper designed by 20 then to a supervisor then to a boss then to a meeting then to the executives who then said "YES! THIS CAR IS GOING TO SAVE GM!"

I guess the crack in Michigan is really good or really bad.

Oh the list of "Cars on Crack" is longer than that...

Chevy AVALANCHE -- What the hell is that thing? an SUV or a truck? Looks like a TONKA toy to me...

Caddy and Lincoln Pick up trucks -- Huh?

Toyota: Yaris, Matrix and Prius --They make the old Pacer look good

Scion: all of them More -- 'Toyotas on crack'

Pontiac Vibe -- An even uglier version of the Matrix!

Mitsubishi Montero -- "Blade Runner" reject

All the bustle trunk BMWs

And even the new Mercedes Benz S-class -- Another "Blade Runner" rerun unless it can fly I don't want it.

I am sure there are lots more where those came from

Maybe a "Cars on Crack" thread?

"The opinion expressed above is only an opinion and does not relflect the policy of this station or its affiliates"

aklim · #12 09-21-2007, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy5848

It's an education thing. Too many people still think that "diesel" means "slow, noisy, smelly," have to get fuel at truck stops, etc.

The American manufacturers, for the most part, just stay in their comfortable rut, selling the stuff they've always sold. Why should they change if they're not required to?

It has speeded up only with the introduction of forced induction. I wouldn't have got an E300 that was NA. Even the wife was grumbling how poochy her E300 Turbodiesel is compared to her gas C280. I had to chip the car to keep her happy. As to the fuel, if is more scarce than gas. I have an easier time finding a gas station than a gas station that sells diesel.

Well, do you feel lucky? Just because you move out of the rut doesn't mean it is going to be a success. Unlike buying a toaster, you cannot return it once you have built it.

SwampYankee · #13 09-20-2007, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich300TDMBZ

Dodge is introducing a crossover to Europe and US - the Dodge Journey. The European version includes a VW diesel engine. What caught my eye was the comments - almost all lamented why the diesel engine is not available here. Is there a pent-up demand for clean diesels here that the US car manufacturers do not see? Are they stupid?
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09/20/dodge-to-bring-journey-to-us/

I'd buy a diesel version if available. Honda has been rumored to come out with a diesel Odyssey for 3 years now and waiting. The same for some of the Jeeps, I'd love to buy the wife a diesel Commander. But after the Daimler divorce that's probably further from fruition.

I think dawsonj3 has the reasons why it won't happen soon right there.

Jim B. · #14 09-20-2007, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich300TDMBZ

Is there a pent-up demand for clean diesels here that the US car manufacturers do not see? Are they stupid?

Why, yes, as a matter of fact, they are. Would YOU build and then try and sell the Pontiac Aztek to the American car buying public?

diametricalbenz · #15 09-20-2007, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact, they are. Would YOU build and then try and sell the Pontiac Aztek to the American car buying public?

That still befuddles me because that design went from paper designed by 20 then to a supervisor then to a boss then to a meeting then to the executives who then said "YES! THIS CAR IS GOING TO SAVE GM!"

I guess the crack in Michigan is really good or really bad.