Pent-up Demand for Diesels in US? - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

JimFreeh · #31 09-21-2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

cough.....that would be a 524td.

Tom W

Wasn't that the engine that made an OM603 look like a paragon of reliability?

Jim

aklim · #32 09-21-2007, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michakaveli

I don't think someone had commented on that fact that it is all dependent upon "Big Oil" companies. They don't want the US market to recede into more fule efficient vehicles. Just imagine the hit big oil would take on reduced profits with many more diesels on the road.

Gotta agree that most consumers in the US don't place much emphasis on smelly, loud diesels if there is a large increase in fuel economy. US coonsumers liek many other around the world let their finances dictate what they drive for the most part.
Only a selected few drive these MB diesels for shear pleasure :-)

Just imagine the profits a company will make if they can introduce a vehicle that gets way more gas mileage. What do the conspiracy theorists say the oil companies are offering the car manufacturers? What about the Jap cars? They in on it too?

aklim · #33 09-21-2007, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michakaveli

The efficientcy of a diesel engine uses less fuel that a similarly displaced gas engine. Less consumption means less profits for big oil.

In a raw picture, I'd agree. However, if I have $50 to spend at the end of everything, I might do something. But if I had $100 at the end of everything, I might be inclined to buy a bigger product. Everything centers around fuel.

SwampYankee · #34 09-21-2007, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michakaveli

The efficientcy of a diesel engine uses less fuel that a similarly displaced gas engine. Less consumption means less profits for big oil.

True, a diesel is what, 20% more efficient fuel use-wise than a similar gas vehicle? How much more does it cost to refine crude to gasoline than crude to diesel fuel? If it's only 20% more, then it's a wash. If it's greater than 20% higher, Big Oil comes out ahead due to the lower cost of refining and selling at a price near gasoline. Less consumption of a higher margin fuel doesn't necessarily mean less profits.

The variable is what the actual cost of production of gas vs. diesel is, which I don't know. I was hoping someone might have an idea. You may very well be right, but I was just curious as to what those numbers may be.

jshadows · #35 09-21-2007, 05:31 PM

Here in old Europe, particularly France the diesel is not taxed as much. Makes about an 80 cent difference per gallon which is substantial when we pay $5-6/gallon. The emissions rules have also generally privileged efficiency over emissions and therefore diesels get special treatment.

Diesels are everywhere because of this. No one in there right mind buys a gasser unless they're a car nut (for speed/look) or they are independently wealthy. Every cab that's available is diesel, every MB sedan or wagon is for the most part diesel. It's funny to see the post 124 wagons in diesel..kinda the same as there's no 126 diesels here.

75Sv1 · #36 09-21-2007, 06:21 PM

I think part of the reason diesel is higher than gas is that its the ULS diesel takes more to refine it. The ULS is needed for the newer emmisions standards and the emmision controls on the engine to function. I think the new Cummins doesn't use UREA. People can say that the gas engine is still being developed, but so are diesel engine.
Tom

Hatterasguy · #37 09-22-2007, 12:33 AM

I beleive Honda is planning on bringing a few in for the 2009 MY.

I am pretty sure MB plans on making a CDI C class for 2009 as well. But it won't be cheap, I'd figure about $35,000 with a few options. Check them all and you will top $40k with ease!

lietuviai · #38 09-22-2007, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

I beleive Honda is planning on bringing a few in for the 2009 MY.

That could mean they'll be available next year.

Hatterasguy · #39 09-22-2007, 12:40 AM

Maybe, 09's should be out in the fall.

lietuviai · #40 09-22-2007, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Maybe, 09's should be out in the fall.

OH BOY!

Hatterasguy · #41 09-22-2007, 12:49 AM

I'll have to pretend I want to buy one and go for a test drive.

lietuviai · #42 09-22-2007, 01:02 AM

I may even consider buying one w/o a test drive.

aklim · #43 09-22-2007, 01:16 AM

Wouldn't be interested in it if it was FWD and/or more than $100

probear · #44 09-22-2007, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 75Sv1

I think part of the reason diesel is higher than gas is that its the ULS diesel takes more to refine it. The ULS is needed for the newer emmisions standards and the emmision controls on the engine to function. I think the new Cummins doesn't use UREA. People can say that the gas engine is still being developed, but so are diesel engine.
Tom

Actually, there are a number of reasons that the cost is up. As you stated, the refining cost is up for the ULSD, but that's not the whole answer. Another problem is transportation of the fuel. It cannot be shipped through a number of existing pipelines as the pipes are used to transport other fuels, many of which still have large amounts of sulfur. This sulfur adheres to the pipe and releases when the ULSD comes through, the sulfur gets back into the fuel, raising the PPM above the limit. Other reasons are the increased amount of heating oil used up north, and I feel, there is a PC trade off to keep gas prices a little lower. (This is because there are more gas users) Higher diesel prices are like hidden taxes, and eventually just passed on the the consumers.

t walgamuth · #45 09-22-2007, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimFreeh

Wasn't that the engine that made an OM603 look like a paragon of reliability?

Jim

I have not heard that they were all that bad.

Tom W