Pent-up Demand for Diesels in US? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

bellyboy · #16 09-20-2007, 09:00 PM

with diesel prices edging higher recently- i believe there is going to be new/recent diesel owners jumping ship moving back to gas power. higher diesel prices will decrease demand for diesel motors, and diesel engine owners values will soften

stabilization may occur due to the trucking industry, the costs of shipping will increase and a adjustment in fuel price may be reduced ,to reduce shipping costs-or not.

supply and demand

mb's values will hold for people selling to people looking to burn alt.fuels. values will soften for owners selling to diesel burning buyers, if diesel fuel stays above gas

for awhile it seemed diesel owners felt they were dodging the market- "holier then thou", that their auto values will hold or increase - me included - what a difference a few days can make

of course-I.M.H.O

LUVMBDiesels · #17 09-20-2007, 09:25 PM

I don't know about diesels loosing their value. I bought mine because I wanted a big car that I could rely on that would also return 26-27mpg. I could not find that in a gasser. I also like the idea of being able to run bio fuels if I want to, I have not done so yet but I am looking for a reliable source of bio Diesel.

I think that since our cars are getting older and are being subjected to things like Lovecraft conversions the net amount of older MB diesels will drop sharply in the next few years keeping our cars prices stable at least.

If car companies decided to put out new cheaper diesels along the lines of the Golf or Jetta (Civic or Corolla or PT Cruiser anyone?) You will see people snap them up. After all they can get in the mid 40 mpg and still be fun to drive.
As for emission controls what they need to do is reformulate the fuel as they have done with gasoline. Instead of cutting gas with ethanol, we should be running B10-B15 in all our engines to cut emissions. That would work better than a urea system.

"The proceeding was an editorial opinion. It does not reflect the views of this station or its affiliates"

bellyboy · #18 09-20-2007, 09:36 PM

i agree our vehicle #s will decrease in the coming years

if there was a gas car that got 40 mpg, and a diesel got 40mpg, and gas or diesel fuel prices are consistently .25 or better apart "generally" people will buy the cheaper fuel powered vehicle

the other thing with ours is easy to work on, no computers, and apparently they will work after a nuclear attack or something like that - i heard

in the above i was refering to maybe the newer vw diesels could be reduced- even though i mentioned mb's - will see

rkasal · #19 09-20-2007, 10:39 PM

I think it's a matter of education. Let's face it, most Americans are ignorant of what's happening in the U.S. (excep for Paris or Britney) let alone the world.

Modern diesels are great engines. The price of diesel may be similar to benzene now as opposed to 20 years ago, but diesel engines are more quiet and run cleaner than 20 years ago.

What soured Americans on diesels, I think, were the typical shoddy American product when GM produced diesels. They were noisy, stinky, and un-reliable.

At the same time, I knew someone who drove a BMW 525td and it was a world of difference above American products - like normal.

Educate the populace and they will buy diesels.

Regards,

Randy Kasal

lietuviai · #20 09-20-2007, 11:01 PM

I wouldn't buy a US diesel under any circumstance. I too am not convinced they could build a car that would be reliable. I would OTOH buy a Honda diesel. If they are capable of making gassers that can reliably go 300K imagine how long one of their diesels would last.

t walgamuth · #21 09-20-2007, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkasal

I think it's a matter of education. Let's face it, most Americans are ignorant of what's happening in the U.S. (excep for Paris or Britney) let alone the world.

Modern diesels are great engines. The price of diesel may be similar to benzene now as opposed to 20 years ago, but diesel engines are more quiet and run cleaner than 20 years ago.

What soured Americans on diesels, I think, were the typical shoddy American product when GM produced diesels. They were noisy, stinky, and un-reliable.

At the same time, I knew someone who drove a BMW 525td and it was a world of difference above American products - like normal.

Educate the populace and they will buy diesels.

Regards,

Randy Kasal

cough.....that would be a 524td.

Tom W

#22 09-21-2007, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lietuviai

I wouldn't buy a US diesel under any circumstance. I too am not convinced they could build a car that would be reliable. I would OTOH buy a Honda diesel. If they are capable of making gassers that can reliably go 300K imagine how long one of their diesels would last.

I'm done with both domestics and ricers. The domestics are just not worth buying; the ricers are functional but they drive like my daughter's playstation game.

michakaveli · #23 09-21-2007, 10:07 AM

I don't think someone had commented on that fact that it is all dependent upon "Big Oil" companies. They don't want the US market to recede into more fule efficient vehicles. Just imagine the hit big oil would take on reduced profits with many more diesels on the road. Gotta agree that most consumers in the US don't place much emphasis on smelly, loud diesels if there is a large increase in fuel economy. US coonsumers liek many other around the world let their finances dictate what they drive for the most part.
Only a selected few drive these MB diesels for shear pleasure :-)

SwampYankee · #24 09-21-2007, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michakaveli

I don't think someone had commented on that fact that it is all dependent upon "Big Oil" companies. They don't want the US market to recede into more fule efficient vehicles. Just imagine the hit big oil would take on reduced profits with many more diesels on the road. Gotta agree that most consumers in the US don't place much emphasis on smelly, loud diesels if there is a large increase in fuel economy. US coonsumers liek many other around the world let their finances dictate what they drive for the most part.
Only a selected few drive these MB diesels for shear pleasure :-)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't diesel up-line in the refining process from gasoline making it less expensive to produce? Since the price of diesel fluctuates between the price of Super Unleaded and Unleaded, and I assume it costs less to refine/produce, wouldn't Big Oil make more if there were more diesels (similar price-lower cost=more profit)?

Emissions standards are what's keeping new diesels out of a left-leaning (with a solid, veto-proof majority) controlled CT-add MA, NY, CA and any other stict diesel emission state-and you've drastically cut the new diesel market potential. I'm not sure the environmentalists who want cleaner air, the politicians who serve at their whim and Big Oil are in cahoots. Politics make for strange bedfellows, but I don't see these parties shacking up.

Biodiesel300TD · #25 09-21-2007, 11:02 AM

Europe has all kinds of diesels. Something like 50% of passenger cars in Europe are diesel. So all the auto makers make lots of diesels, they just don't come to the US. They get shipped to other countries, so they are plenty made.

Even a well tuned old diesel doesn't have that much smoke. I took my wagon in running on B100 for an emissions test, of course all the measured was opacity, but the result was only 5%.

I works on VW TDI all day long. They are very fast, quiet, and not smelly. They kick the socks off and 123 turbo any day! Most of the slow, loud, and smelly, comes from all the big trucks that run around. I think with the techology that the auto manufacturers have today there is no arguement the the new diesels are slow, loud, and smelly. I think people are so used to the stink of gas fumes that they don't smell them anymore, and when a diesel goes by they pick it out because it smells different. Running biodiesel in just about any concentration negates almost all of the emission problems. It only takes 20% biodiesel added to a tank of petro diesel to reduce the emissions dramatically. I think the the best way to easy the emission problems for diesel is to sell B20 at all diesel pumps. IF you want more than B20 that should be available as well.

michakaveli · #26 09-21-2007, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwampYankee

wouldn't Big Oil make more if there were more diesels (similar price-lower cost=more profit)?

The efficientcy of a diesel engine uses less fuel that a similarly displaced gas engine. Less consumption means less profits for big oil.

#27 09-21-2007, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biodiesel300TD

It only takes 20% biodiesel added to a tank of petro diesel to reduce the emissions dramatically. I think the the best way to easy the emission problems for diesel is to sell B20 at all diesel pumps. IF you want more than B20 that should be available as well.

I think you are comparing apples and oranges, it's relatively easy to limit particulate (which it what everyone can see). The real issue is NOX which is going to occur whenever you have high temperature combustion with excess O2 (regardless of fuel). There is no practical way to prevent/limit the production of NOX without limiting the supply of O2 (that's what a EGR is trying to do) or lowering combustion temperatures (which would reduce efficiency). Unfortunately, the production of NOX is inherent in a diesel engine. The current solution (ammonia reaction with the exhaust gases) has been used in industrial facilities for years. It is just a high temperature chemical reaction to break down the NOX.

Dr. Worm · #28 09-21-2007, 11:23 AM

Even with diesel at $.30 more than gas my '05 Passat TDI Wagon is still cheaper to run than a gasser. Plus it's the first car I ever bought that is worth what I paid for it three years and 40k miles later. I should have bought two of them.

WINGAS · #29 09-21-2007, 11:24 AM

Actually have higher NOx on bio as the combustion temps are higher.

Dont fret folks, most of us will be driving biofuel cars in the future. The US will figure out that ethanol from corn is a really crappy solution, with huge ramifications.

Switchgrass on the other hand....

give it 20 yrs. Us biodieselers are just ahead of our time is all.

So for the next 20 years we got it all to ourselves before the masses have to join us.

Somehow, I dont look forward to that, yet I do for the planet.

aklim · #30 09-21-2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy5848

It's an education thing. Too many people still think that "diesel" means "slow, noisy, smelly," have to get fuel at truck stops, etc.

The American manufacturers, for the most part, just stay in their comfortable rut, selling the stuff they've always sold. Why should they change if they're not required to?

It has speeded up only with the introduction of forced induction. I wouldn't have got an E300 that was NA. Even the wife was grumbling how poochy her E300 Turbodiesel is compared to her gas C280. I had to chip the car to keep her happy. As to the fuel, if is more scarce than gas. I have an easier time finding a gas station than a gas station that sells diesel.

Well, do you feel lucky? Just because you move out of the rut doesn't mean it is going to be a success. Unlike buying a toaster, you cannot return it once you have built it.