Group Buy? Jeep Liberty CRD GT2256v -> T3 Adapter - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

winmutt · #1 10-16-2007, 06:06 PM

I am trying to see if anyone else is interested in doing this. The turbos are relatively cheap @ ~ $100 on ebay and there are no adapters for these out there. If this is something you might be interested in speak up. I will of course be collecting monies before anything really happens but I need a head count so I can get an idea of how much it is going to cost per adapter.

bgkast · #2 10-16-2007, 10:27 PM

I might be game. Any good solutions to controling the turbo yet?

pawoSD · #3 10-16-2007, 10:46 PM

What are the advantages of this turbo?

bgkast · #4 10-17-2007, 01:39 AM

Boost as soon as you step on the go pedal.

charmalu · #5 10-17-2007, 02:17 AM

so what are you talking about? a turbo off a liberty, or an adapter to use
a jeep liberty turbo on a MB 617?

There is a Garratt turbo for a liberty on e-bay now.

Charlie

winmutt · #6 10-17-2007, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmalu

so what are you talking about? a turbo off a liberty, or an adapter to use
a jeep liberty turbo on a MB 617?

There is a Garratt turbo for a liberty on e-bay now.

Charlie

Just the adapter. The turbos are cheap and easy to get ahold of. I am expecting a price in the sub $50 range shipped. The more people the smaller the cost. I plan on putting together a kit of sorts with a second run if there are enough interested people.

FI: Would you please state some of your common boost levels at certain rpms? I know you had said 6psi on the off ramp with the foot off the pedal.

[edit] this is from FI's sig, his turbo is a gt2256v from a MB, the same turbo different flange is on the Liberty CRD AKA Jeep Cherokee CRD.

Quote:

The turbo works great as a warmup exhaust restriction (I can see this becoming a problem in the summer).
There is about 2psi of exhaust pressure and just a *hair* off the peg of boost at idle.
There is almost no boost drop between shifts.
EGT's still run in the same ranges. I can easily pass 1250*f.
Decelerating from highway speeds maintains about 6 psi of boost all the way down to 30mph in 4th gear.
The turbo seems hover in the 10psi boost and 10psi exhaust pressure most of the time I'm moving under load.
Boost stays around 8psi : 10psi cruising the highway between 55-75mph.
Max boost is about 11psi below 2500rp and peaks at 14psi by 4500rpm.
Exhaust pressure at 14psi boost is 20psi. 5psi less than the KKK K26 turbo.
Exhaust pressure can pass 30psi on a hard takeoff and free (no-load) revving.

What about Idle? 1500rpm?

ARINUTS · #7 10-17-2007, 10:07 PM

Is the GT2256V turbo just a bit on the small side???? Would a GT2259, VNT25, or GT2359 be better suited?

What about this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/GARRETT-REMANNED-CHRYLSER-VNT-TURBOCHARGER-T3-TURBO_W0QQitemZ300160344654QQihZ020QQcategoryZ33742QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

DZL_Damon · #8 10-17-2007, 10:39 PM

I'm sure Winmutt has the technology and know how to put it on his car. Like he said, it's not rocket science guys!! I hear everyone nay saying it with "just adjust your alda and check boost" blah blah blah. The thing is, the car still uses some archaic technology. What part of instant boost is bad from introducing newer technology to a very robust platform?

Like winmutt said, the ground work has been laid out by ForcedInduction already. Now there is a map, it is VERY easy to duplicate. Yes the GT23 series IS a better choice... excellent observation. However they are not as easy to obtain. Those liberty turbos are out there, and this type of project is cheap enough to play around with. True, it will not flow MUCH more air (it will flow a bit more), but it will have better drivability. I'm sure it would support the full load screw being turned up, of course in conjunction with an intercooler, and watch your EGTs, yadayadayada.

I think it's terrific that people are stepping up and pioneering things like this (well... at least in this country!).

Keep up the good work winmutt. I'll be putting on my liberty turbo eventually as well, however not the current vehicle as you already know.

#9 10-18-2007, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winmutt

FI: Would you please state some of your common boost levels at certain rpms? I know you had said 6psi on the off ramp with the foot off the pedal.

What about Idle? 1500rpm?

My particular actuator naturally limits the boost to 8psi, however full power will bring the boost to around 12-13psi. Boost is present as soon as I start moving under a load and reaches maximum around 2700rpm 2-4th gear during my normal daily driving. Mashing the throttle in gear from a low speed will get max boost about 2200rpm, BUT it can send the compressor into the surge range if I try to use heavy throttle below 2500rpm. Above 55mph on the highway it stays at 8psi. No-throttle deceleration off the highway is 5-8psi until about 2800rpm where it starts to go down.

Basically it's a huge step up in driveability, especially if you have a manual transmission.

Idle is 0psi but occasionally just a hair off the 0 peg in ideal conditions. 1500rpm is about 2psi. Revving and holding 3500rpm will make 8psi and the actuator starts moving the vanes to limit pressure.

The simple actuator works for me because I'm keeping boost in the stock pressure range right now. But if you want to go higher then there really needs to be some sort of mechanical device or electronics to control the vanes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by invol

Would the adapter work on a OM602? Or is the manifold bolt pattern different than for a OM617?

The adapter will work but the turbo might not fit. R Leo bought one of these turbos from a guy who was going to put on on his 190D. He said he could not get it to fit in the engine bay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARINUTS

Is the GT2256V turbo just a bit on the small side???? Would a GT2259, VNT25, or GT2359 be better suited?

What about this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/GARRETT-REMANNED-CHRYLSER-VNT-TURBOCHARGER-T3-TURBO_W0QQitemZ300160344654QQihZ020QQcategoryZ33742QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The GT2256V is perfectly fine for stock and somewhat higher than stock power levels and is capable of 18psi with an intercooler on the OM617. You won't find a GT2259V or GT2559V in the USA and the GT2359V would be overkill unless you want to max out your injection pump's fuel delivery for power.

Don't even consider a VNT25. It's ancient T-turbo technology like the T3 and it's too small for any of the Mercedes engines.

#10 10-17-2007, 02:22 AM

I doubt there would be enough interest in a group buy. The task of controlling the turbo, modifying the oil supply/return lines, fabricating an exhaust adapter and adapting the air filter would be pretty daunting for most.

For those with the will to work for it, the results are WELL worth the effort.

pawoSD · #11 10-17-2007, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

I doubt there would be enough interest in a group buy. The task of controlling the turbo, modifying the oil supply/return lines, fabricating an exhaust adapter and adapting the air filter would be pretty daunting for most.

For those with the will to work for it, the results are WELL worth the effort.

I'd work for it! It just depends on the cost.

TimFreeh · #12 10-17-2007, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

I doubt there would be enough interest in a group buy. The task of controlling the turbo, modifying the oil supply/return lines, fabricating an exhaust adapter and adapting the air filter would be pretty daunting for most.

For those with the will to work for it, the results are WELL worth the effort.

I have the capabilities and facilities to do all of the above tasks - but I would never consider taking on such a set of modifications to tweak an OM61X. These cars are pretty well setup as they come from the factory and I'd bet that most (but certainly not all) people that attempt modifications like this would be better served by making sure their factory ALDA and boost control systems are operating correctly.

Properly controlling the boost in a turbo or supercharged car is not a trivial task and its certainly not for the faint of heart.

invol · #13 10-17-2007, 10:41 AM

Would the adapter work on a OM602? Or is the manifold bolt pattern different than for a OM617?

winmutt · #14 10-17-2007, 12:06 PM

They both use the T3 manifold. Fitting it in there might be a chore, the 201/124 engine bays looked cramped to me. However the Finns have fit all kinds of larger turbos.

Tim: All you need is a wastegate like boost controller. No big deal. FI has had his running for quite some time now. In the mean time as soon as I can get the thing bolted on and running I will start working with the available parameters that I have electronic signals for, boost and tach to see if a low cost electric solution is possible. There is absolutely no comparison between the WW2 era T3 that is stock and a VNT turbo.

TimFreeh · #15 10-17-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winmutt

They both use the T3 manifold. Fitting it in there might be a chore, the 201/124 engine bays looked cramped to me. However the Finns have fit all kinds of larger turbos.

Tim: All you need is a wastegate like boost controller. No big deal. FI has had his running for quite some time now. In the mean time as soon as I can get the thing bolted on and running I will start working with the available parameters that I have electronic signals for, boost and tach to see if a low cost electric solution is possible. There is absolutely no comparison between the WW2 era T3 that is stock and a VNT turbo.

FI has a link on the bottom of his posts that directs you to a thread on the Schumann web site where he discuses some of his experiences try to get a VNT turbocharger working on an OM617 engine. Have you read it? I think maybe you should before you embark on your efforts to develop an integrated control system for a VNT turbocharger.

The thread runs over 10 pages ( I got tired or reading after about the sixth page - I've got to admit my interest in this kind of project is very low).