Hi,

I found a later pump in a trip to the wrecking yard and decided to use it to replace my older pump with unknown but probably very high mileage.

These pictures show the exposed bearings on the early pump that can fall into the engine upon failure.

The 617 pumps can fail. ON mine it did make noise and the vac system stopped working too before the pump came apart with catastrophic results. I heard the noise but when I took it to the dealer to hear it of course it miraculously healed itself. I knew something was up but had no clue such a catastrophic result was possible. The system went into comlete melt down on a trip to st louis halfway home and I was about 30 miles form home when it crapped.

That was fifteen years ago or more long before this excellent resource existed.

Tom W

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Can you please describe "catastrophic?" The condition of my VP seems OK, but I don't know if it's ever been rebuilt or replaced. Perhaps that should be added to my todo list. Thanks.

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1998 E300D, 287k, barely broken in.

Boy I had forgotten that I even started this thread. I started the thread as I had read quite a few threads on how the Vacuum Pump had failed and pieces of it fell into the timing chain area and caused the timing chain to fail (even break, the catastrophic part). One of the members Stevo believed the Vacuum Pump failure was caused in his case by the IP pump Timer (this is the unit that drives the IP and advances the timing on the IP). He said his had too much end play (moved back and fourth too much).
Because of all of this I decided to pull off my Vacuum Pump and take a look. After removal a visual inspection I could not see any thing that looked like it was badly worn or ready to fall apart and I put it back on. (I was inspection the arm, linkage and roller that drives the vacuum pump piston; this is the part that is inside the engine.)
If something goes wrong on the other end of the pump the part with the valves in it the pump will just stop producing vacuum and you will loose your power brakes and will not be able to shutoff the engine (you will have to open the hood and push the manual shutoff by the valve cover).
The pump is not hard to get off; I did have to loosen the Power Steering Pump and remove the belt from the Power Steering Pulley in order to get the V Pump off.
I will PM you some additional information.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

While cleaning my shop desk this morning I ran across the bushing that caused the vacuum pump on a 240D of mine to fail. There was 2.5mm of lateral slop when I moved the timing device on the intermediate shaft. It had slammed back and forth beating the daylights out of the VP and engine block. I caught it before the engine was destroyed.

Attached Thumbnails

 

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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

Could someone cap the damn thing off in a manual car with no vac modulator, and run an electric pump for locks, power brakes, and CC (if applicable)? Added benefit that power brakes will still work with the motor off.

If I remember correctly funola was looking into something like this not so long ago. I'll try and find the link.

EDIT - here it is

Vacuum pump alternatives

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

I have a thread somewhere where I bought a late model Volvo 12 Volt Electric Vacuum Pump. I conneced it up to the main Vacuum Line and directly to the Battery.

I drove around with it and everthing that needed Vacuum worked normal.

I touched the Electric Vacuum Pump and Blisterd my Finger on it; it was so hot.
So with out the other do-dads like a Check Valve, Relay and Vacuum Switch to turn it on and off I think the Pump was on the way to burning up (this particular Pump seemed to be a Vane type Pump).

Unforunately the purposly made for the Job Vacuum Pumps like Summit Racing Sells are as expensive as a Mercedes Vacuum Pump.

I do not know if there would be any safety issues but I had been wondering if you wired a switch up to the Brake Pedal to turn the Vacuum Pump one only when the Brake is appled would work.
But, charging system problems seem to be more common than Vacuum Pump Failures so I guess it would be slightly less safe.

The above might be helped by adding a Vacuum reservoir just for the Brake Booster.

I am not sure if the locking system could be worked into that. If the Brake/Switch was wired directly to the Battery perhaps to work the locking system when the Car is turned off you could simply tromp on the Brakes a few time to charge up the reservoir of the locking System.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

[QUOTE=Kevin Johnson;1794207]Hi,

I found a later pump in a trip to the wrecking yard and decided to use it to replace my older pump with unknown but probably very high mileage.

I swapped an "early" pump on to a "later" 240D engine, you also have too swap the air cleaner and the vacuum line to the brake booster.

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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

Since the Vacuum pump is not so hard to remove I figure maybe ounce a year or so I would take a look at it.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Here's another possible failure mode:

On 2 pumps in a 617 engine, I've had the piston shatter. They are cast aluminum and have often wondered if anyone would be interested in a run of machined pistons from 6061 alloy.

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Nate Stanley
(Currently Benzless)
1985 F-250 6.9l 170K
2009 SCION XB 36.5K
2003 LS430 78K
2012 Kubota B 2320

None of the regular part places (internet included) sell the pistons.The kit to rebuid the valve end is $45 on up to aroud $70 depending on who you buy it from. The few companies that sell the kit that replaces the arm and other drive parts; one wanted $265.00 for that kit. If you were to add the cost of a new piston it would be better to buy a new vacuum pump with a warranty.
I think the engine driven vacuum pump nees to be gotton rid of and replaced with some sort of electric on or at least a mechanical one that the parts of which will not fall into the timing chain when it fails.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

On one of the "later" engines I went back to the "diaphragm" type pumps found in the early W123. The top of the air cleaner had to be swapped out for one with a vacuum fitting. The rebuild kits for those pumps are considerably cheaper also. They can, of course, lose their ball bearings too

One cause of a vacuum pump going south with catastrophic results is "for and aft (laterel?) play in the timing device due to a worn bushing on the intermediate shaft. If the timing device can be pushed back and forth more that 1mm, beware

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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

After reading this thread I went looking and found as you say the diaphragm pump is cheaper to rebuild but I could find no one that sold the rebuild parts for the arm and bearing.
I also found there are 12 volt electric vacuum pumps made to power the Power Brake Boosters on gassers that have special camshafts or Blowers/turbos on the engines. But, new one are in the $270-$300 range.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Humm, I wonder if one couldn't take the guts out of a VP (to cover the hole) and hook up and 12v one. At least with the diaphragm type there is no piston to come apart just the ball bearings.

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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"