Monark vs. Bosio nozzles - Page 5 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

vitop · #61 05-03-2009, 11:08 PM

Hello:

Same as the first - hessianimports@bellsouth.net

But I just sent you a PM. Hopefully that will work better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by C Sean Watts

Where did you send the 2nd and 3rd email?

vitop · #62 05-03-2009, 11:12 PM

You had mentioned that the timing would change with the pop pressure. I had wondered if that changed, how you would adjust.

Yes, the IP light uses a spot on the IP camshaft. This was recommended by a Mercedes mechanic to me.

I am not sure what the FSM is or how to use the drip method. Is the drip method better than the AB light?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

I am not sure I understand the above comment.

"So, if timing has changed, how do you time it properly? I've got an AB light and set it to 13 ATDC."

"How do you actually know when the pump is opening the injector to set it right?"
If the Injector opening pressures and the IP Begin Injection/Timing are both with in specs ignition should happen when it is supposed to.

I believe the AB Light uses a spot on the IP Camshaft to trigger the Light and because that spot is not in the same place as the begin Injection of #1 if you used the Drip Method the Light triggers and a differnt degree mark. Mercedes has calculated which degree/s that is and gives you a different degree spec to compensate for that.

WD8CDH · #63 05-04-2009, 09:46 AM

What is a good source of shims? When I do this, I need to finish in one day to get back on the road and I can't wait to order shims.

Bob Albrecht · #64 05-04-2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

I don't know if it is EPA legal to use now but back in the late 70s where I worked we used Carburator Dip to clean the Injectors and Turbo Charger parts it. It softens Carbon.

We also had an Ultrasonic Cleaning Tank but we used it to clean Direct Injcetion type Spray Nozzles that had plugged Nozzle holes.

The only company that I know of that provided any sort of scraper type cleaning tools was RoosaMaster (Standyne); for their Pencil Nozzles as the bodies of the Nozzles had a coating that would come off if you soaked it in cleaner.

In short the Scraper tools might work to fix an Injector 1 out of 100 Injectors. Not worth the Labor to do.

You might ask some of the Members that are using the same Fuel and have Harbor Freight Ultrasonic Cleaning Tanks if this is not a better option than the Mercedes Source Scrapers. Also the Tank can be use to clean other things.

Carb cleaner is still available. I used it to clean the injectors. I installed new nozzles.

Diesel911 · #65 05-05-2009, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Albrecht

Carb cleaner is still available. I used it to clean the injectors. I installed new nozzles.

I am not sure if the terms are the same. What I call Carburator Cleaner comes in a spray can and is a clear fluid.
The Dip I was speaking of comes in a 1 gallon (or 5 gallon cans). It is black gray in color, smelly and has Phorsphoric acid in it.
If you leave Aluminum parts in it for a long time like over night it will discolor it; steel parts also. The Dip is made to put the whole dissembled Carburator into and some companies sold the can with a parts basket that fit the can.

Washed the Dip off with Water and dried the parts with compressed air. After that we also washed the parts off with Solovent and blew them dry with compressed air.

They probably make some sort of Dip but I bet it has a different forumla now as I believe the Old Stuff was toxic. If left on your hands too long it would eat on them.

Diesel911 · #66 05-05-2009, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WD8CDH

What is a good source of shims? When I do this, I need to finish in one day to get back on the road and I can't wait to order shims.

C Sean Watts sells a Shim assortment.
If you access to a Shim Punch set I believe it is 7/16 outside diameter is the one that works (I bought a Shim Punch for myself). However the shim will not have the center hole in it and it you should make sure it goes between the other shims and the upper Injector Body; not against the spring or inbetween 2 of the shims.

Diesel911 · #67 05-05-2009, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitop

You had mentioned that the timing would change with the pop pressure. I had wondered if that changed, how you would adjust.

Yes, the IP light uses a spot on the IP camshaft. This was recommended by a Mercedes mechanic to me.

I am not sure what the FSM is or how to use the drip method. Is the drip method better than the AB light?

The Pop/Nozzle opening pressure is adjusted in each Injector by changing the Shim/s that tension the Injector spring. You need a Nozzle/Pop Tester to do this (you can do a search on Ebay to see a pic). It is a hand pumped hydraulic tester that has a gauge to measure the Pop Pressure.
Changing the spring tension changes the Pop Pressure.

The FSM = Factory Service Manual. There is a description in the DIY section and maybe instructions on how to use the AB light.

I have no experience using the AB light but it does not require that partly take out the #1 Delivery Valve and Delivery Valve spring (Depending on the Model of IP you might need a special Splined Socket to remove and install the Delivery Valve Holder) and you would also need new sealing parts (crush washer and O-ring depending on the model of IP) and a Torque Wrench.

So I suppose the above alone could make the AB light easier to use.

Some members have had frustrating experiences with the drip timing method (best to go to the DIY section and read the instructions to see for yourself).

In the past more that 90% of all inline type Fuel Injection Pumps used some form of the Drip Time Method to time them to the Engine so it clearly works. But, you have to understand what you are doing.

When I first did it 30+ years ago I had my Boss to guide me through it till I got it right. After that while it was not something I looked forward to it was not a problem to Drip Time an IP.

After not working as a Diesel Mechanic since 1990 or so I had to re-learn how to do the Drip Time again now that I have a Mercedes (with the Volvo you have to use a Dial Indicator setup).

Bob Albrecht · #68 05-05-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

I am not sure if the terms are the same. What I call Carburator Cleaner comes in a spray can and is a clear fluid.
The Dip I was speaking of comes in a 1 gallon (or 5 gallon cans). It is black gray in color, smelly and has Phorsphoric acid in it.
If you leave Aluminum parts in it for a long time like over night it will discolor it; steel parts also. The Dip is made to put the whole dissembled Carburator into and some companies sold the can with a parts basket that fit the can.

Washed the Dip off with Water and dried the parts with compressed air. After that we also washed the parts off with Solovent and blew them dry with compressed air.

They probably make some sort of Dip but I bet it has a different forumla now as I believe the Old Stuff was toxic. If left on your hands too long it would eat on them.

I was talking about the 1-gallon can "dip" with the basket. It is GUNK brand Carburator and Parts Cleaner. I bought it at the local auto parts store a couple of weeks ago.

Diesel911 · #69 05-05-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Albrecht

I was talking about the 1-gallon can "dip" with the basket. It is GUNK brand Carburator and Parts Cleaner. I bought it at the local auto parts store a couple of weeks ago.

Thanks.
If still works like it did in the old days it should be excellent for cleaning Injectors.

Lowflyingbird · #70 05-10-2009, 04:58 AM

Hi,
I sent you my E300 turbo diesel injectors a few weeks ago, haven't heard back from you on their status. I was wondering if you took a look at them yet? Or received your shippment of nozzles you mentioned to replace them with. Last time you told me you had not looked at them yet.

Please reply
Thanks
Lowflyingbird

gouletc · #71 12-24-2009, 08:28 AM

go to mercedes source dot com

C Sean Watts · #72 12-24-2009, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gouletc

go to mercedes source dot com

That name goes over as well as the proverbial 'dung in a punchbowl' on this forum. Quite a few of us (myself included) have been victims of their 'over promise and under deliver' business model. (Used Asian made parts sold as "New OEM", pay to join the 'special club' to read free available instructions Kent gets from this forum and others, etc.)

scottmcphee · #73 12-24-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C Sean Watts

That name goes over as well as the proverbial 'dung in a punchbowl' on this forum. Quite a few of us (myself included) have been victims of their 'over promise and under deliver' business model. (Used Asian made parts sold as "New OEM", pay to join the 'special club' to read free available instructions Kent gets from this forum and others, etc.)

Ouch! Sticking on the topic here, can assure you the Monark nozzles I got from said source are definitely not Asian, and I paid a reasonable price for them, no extra instructions required, got them as promised, put them in and totally happy with their performance ever since.

Bosch are the ones I took out. Probably were the original with the car 180K miles on them. Had 1 low popper, and 2 pissers, 3 were OK still.
Never tried Bosnia's, so I can't comment on them.

C Sean Watts · #74 12-24-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottmcphee

Ouch! Sticking on the topic here, can assure you the Monark nozzles I got from said source are definitely not Asian, and I paid a reasonable price for them, no extra instructions required, got them as promised, put them in and totally happy with their performance ever since.

Bosch are the ones I took out. Probably were the original with the car 180K miles on them. Had 1 low popper, and 2 pissers, 3 were OK still.
Never tried Bosnia's, so I can't comment on them.

They sell lots of other parts. I'm fairly certain Mercedes never made anything with "Taiwan" and nothing else embossed on it. Monark are definitely premium but they shouldn't sell for more than $20.00.

Bosio are from Italy and they're actually very good also but sell for more than that.

Diesel911 · #75 12-24-2009, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottmcphee

Ouch! Sticking on the topic here, can assure you the Monark nozzles I got from said source are definitely not Asian, and I paid a reasonable price for them, no extra instructions required, got them as promised, put them in and totally happy with their performance ever since.

Bosch are the ones I took out. Probably were the original with the car 180K miles on them. Had 1 low popper, and 2 pissers, 3 were OK still.
Never tried Bosnia's, so I can't comment on them.

MS sells a Glow Plug Reamer that is made by drilling out a Glow Plug and mounting the Reamer Bit in it. It comes with instructions and a skinny Bottle type Brush. Cost $38.95, shipping is free. (This is not an endorsement.)
El Paso Tool sells their Factory made one for a total cost with the shipping for $39.20. No instructions or Bottle type Brush. (Still no endosement.)

My opinion is thatgiven construction of their Glow Plug Reamer they could sell it for less and still make money.

So depending on your view of it you could say MS shows good business sense or you could say they over value their product.

MS clever because by supplying instructions they are able th charge more.
Adding the Bottle Type Brush is mostly a gimmick.

As an educated consumer I understand what is going on.