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  #31  
Old 07-11-2008, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
That is incorrect information. The earth is constantly changing, its been far warmer than now and its been far colder than it is now. We are at the end of an iceage, of course its going to get warmer!
Why don't you go back to the Open Discussion and post your propaganda there. Last time I checked you ran away after I presented some facts.
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  #32  
Old 07-11-2008, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by bustedbenz View Post
I concede the point that 500k is unrealistic for Priuses... Pri-ii... Toyota hybrids, as well as unrealistic for Mercedes... but I guess the 30 year figure is actually a better one to judge by. There are lots of Mercs out there that have made it 200k in 30 years and still function. I question whether the plastic bits and computers and bells and whistles in the Prius will still be functioning in 2033 (25 years after new production this year). To say nothing of the batteries giving out. Think that Toyota will still be selling replacement 10 yr batteries in 25 or 30 years?
I think most of today's car will have trouble in 20-30 years because of all the wiring and electronics and I have no doubt that the old diesels age better. But I was talking specifically about mileage and yes 200K is nothing for many of today's car. Age is a different issue, but most people don't keep their cars that long.
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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

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  #33  
Old 07-11-2008, 10:12 PM
ForcedInduction
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Originally Posted by DieselAddict View Post
Last time I checked you ran away after I presented some facts.
Last time I checked you posted your misinformation about the man-made GW myth here first. I haven't run away from anything, you never replied to me.
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  #34  
Old 07-11-2008, 11:53 PM
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Its way more efficient and environmentally friendly to keep old cars repaired and on the road....building a new car takes a VAST amount of energy....something like 10-12,000 gallons of water are used to build one car! Not to mention all the plastic parts (oil) metal (has to be mined, which pollutes massively), computer equipment (very un-environmentally friendly)......the list goes on. Old cars even if less efficient or with dirtier exhaust, are still way better.
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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 78k - mine - (OC-80,500)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 8k - wifes (OC-10k)
'01 E320 Wagon - 159k - mine (OC-160,000)
'89 420SEL 166k - mine (OC-167,000)
'01 E320 - 171k - dad's (OC-171,500)
'07 E350 Wagon - 131k - dad's (OC-132,500)
'01 SL500 - 49k - dad's (OC-52,000)
'09 E350 4matic Sedan - 129k - Brothers (OC-128,000)
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  #35  
Old 07-11-2008, 11:56 PM
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Thats great, lets bash all the diesels which burn less fuel and could reduce our demand for crude while still letting people drive. Yeah thats great, lets bash a mature technoligy that already exists in every other country but ours that could really help us.

I hate article's like that. The press is mostly air headed nit wits.

An E320CDI that gets excellent mileage, is fast, can seat 5 people and hold a ton of crap, is a horrible car, yeah sure. Buy an H2 or a POS hybrid, yeah sure.
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  #36  
Old 07-12-2008, 12:51 AM
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Prius consumes way more resources than almost all cars, however, they did not test our 'old diesels...but you can interpolate, we have a sense for mechanical things here.
The test heard 'round the world (except for the green crowd, they don't want to hear/see it)
http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/
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  #37  
Old 07-12-2008, 01:02 AM
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Prius anyone?

I saw this excerpt from a ebay guy selling a MB several months ago I like it so I saved it:

MSN Money.
High-tech cars mean high-priced repairs!
When keys can cost hundreds of dollars and headlights thousands, you can bet virtually any repair bill will be a shocker.

MSN Money columnist Liz Pulliam Weston reports.

By Liz Pulliam Weston

My friend Kerry was proud to be on the cutting edge of hybrid technology when he bought a Toyota Prius a few years ago.
He's less proud to be on the cutting edge of hybrid-technology repairs. He just paid a bundle to replace the car's transaxle, part of the vehicle's new-wave continuously variable transmission, which failed just after the warranty expired.
"The dealer initially told me it would be $3,000 just for the labor, and $5,000 for the part. That's 40% of the original base price of the car!"
Then there are hybrid technologies. The transmission, batteries and braking systems are costly to replace, and the number of mechanics qualified to work on hybrids is limited. The potential costs aren't lost on consumers: a recent Edmunds.com poll found that 44% of those surveyed were "extremely concerned" hybrids would be expensive to fix.

But the high cost of replacing electronics and other cutting-edge technology is what often sideswipes drivers, car experts say. Big bills from relatively small components also increase the likelihood that an insurer will declare a car totaled after a collision because the damage is too expensive to fix.
And speaking of insurance, expect to pay more for that, too.

"We have all this wonderful technology making cars safer," said Candysse Miller, executive director of the Insurance Information Network of California and a car buff who drives an Audi S4. "But if it's more expensive to repair, it's more expensive to insure."

Insurance rates can also be affected by the fact that certain items -- think xenon headlights and airbags -- are the favorite targets of thieves.

Liz Pulliam Weston's column appears every Monday and Thursday, exclusively on MSN Money.
She also answers reader questions in the Your Money message board
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  #38  
Old 07-12-2008, 01:36 AM
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Scary stuff....I kinda had assumed that was the case with those cars though. There's just too much space technology under the hood for their own good....makes it worthless if it fails. Like having the main board fail in a middle aged server....its likely going to be entirely replaced rather than just the board....since the price is usually less to replace the whole unit....its like that with the majority of products nowadays though.
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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 78k - mine - (OC-80,500)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 8k - wifes (OC-10k)
'01 E320 Wagon - 159k - mine (OC-160,000)
'89 420SEL 166k - mine (OC-167,000)
'01 E320 - 171k - dad's (OC-171,500)
'07 E350 Wagon - 131k - dad's (OC-132,500)
'01 SL500 - 49k - dad's (OC-52,000)
'09 E350 4matic Sedan - 129k - Brothers (OC-128,000)
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  #39  
Old 07-12-2008, 03:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pawoSD View Post
Scary stuff....I kinda had assumed that was the case with those cars though. There's just too much space technology under the hood for their own good....makes it worthless if it fails. Like having the main board fail in a middle aged server....its likely going to be entirely replaced rather than just the board....since the price is usually less to replace the whole unit....its like that with the majority of products nowadays though.
But your missing one big part of the journey.. you have to find it first
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  #40  
Old 07-12-2008, 03:30 AM
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I personally believe in human-induced climate change. But I don't care because If I don't burn it someone else will. They'll eventually run every well dry no matter who thinks their green so I say enjoy your Mercedes diesel while you can and be thankful it can run on used automotive fluids and other future junk liquids.
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  #41  
Old 07-12-2008, 11:41 AM
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Trying to have a reasonable conversation with a global warming zealot is impossible. The whole man made GW issue has now evolved into a religion that has sucked in many desperate, ill informed people with dubious intentions. ANY fact that is used in the argument by the non believer is scoffed at, and the pitiful non believer is then mocked and bullied into submission. I am sick of it. I don't want to hear a god damn word about the world and pollution and why it's America's problem. All the clueless rabble of the global warming movement can pry their fat asses on to a "green" airplane if they can find one and fly to China, india, Russia, and all the "Stans" and have a *****fest with them. Oh wait, they would be told, "go to Hell, we have a country to run, people to feed, and industry to support and grow, either leave or we will shoot you". Something they need to hear more often. Thanks, I just had to vent. I'm better now..........really.
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  #42  
Old 07-12-2008, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselAddict View Post
Well again, how many MB's have you seen with over 500K miles? I could count them on my hand. I think I've seen one or two in my life (on Ebay).
Mine just rolled over to 714k. my friend has one in portland that he bought with 652k.

There is no way that a any car with plastic bumpers will look anything near drive-able in 15-20 years.

I also like how they removed just about every car/truck that is being driven on the road for pleasure/daily driver from their results. how much more can you lock in on Diesels to bash them.
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Last edited by arcticathlon; 07-12-2008 at 12:13 PM.
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  #43  
Old 07-12-2008, 12:38 PM
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Come on people;.. face it; we drive stink pots. I don't apologize for it; my old Hitler era 5 cylinder diesel pollutes like crazy.

But i know in it's entire 28 year life it hasn't polluted as much as one jetliner take off or spewing the heavy metal bunker oil & used oil burned in a ship.
Nothing pollutes like a volcano.
Everything is perception.
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  #44  
Old 07-12-2008, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatterasguy View Post
I hate article's like that. The press is mostly air headed nit wits.
That's why people like me eventually run away from the industry. That's the way the press is across the board, including where I work, in sports. Most coverage of major issues is (and sometimes has to be) generic, cursory and crafted with a halfwit audience in mind. Write intelligent, highly scientific articles and 1) you'll never get a publication out because it takes too much time and 2) most of your readers will be too dumb to understand it, will be angered by its level of sophistacion, or angered because it doesn't say what they feel comfortable believing. The mass media is a terrible place for an insightful mind to be trapped.

I would take this article with a grain of salt. People love lists of the "top 10" or "worst 10" anything ... heaven forbid they should sit down and balance out facts and conclude that things such as emissions, value and economy are circumstantial by nature. I don't blame yahoo for publishing an article that readers will lap up. It would have been nice if they'd offered a little bit of alternative perspective, even if parenthetical, but they don't have to ... that isn't their job. If you want to read something intelligent, don't look to yahoo for it. There are countless publications and Web sites that can give you interesting perspective, whether it's on diesels, hybrids, biofuels, etc.

And on a side note, why does this debate always end up mutually exclusive? I.e., "hybrids are crap" or "hybrids are the answer." Isn't it feasible that some people could own hybrids, because they're great in a city-driving environment, and some people could own diesels, because they're ideal in a highway scenario? And maybe if we're lucky some of us wil get the chance to drive diesel-electric hybrids.
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  #45  
Old 07-12-2008, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnzy View Post
Trying to have a reasonable conversation with a global warming zealot is impossible. The whole man made GW issue has now evolved into a religion that has sucked in many desperate, ill informed people with dubious intentions. ANY fact that is used in the argument by the non believer is scoffed at, and the pitiful non believer is then mocked and bullied into submission. I am sick of it. I don't want to hear a god damn word about the world and pollution and why it's America's problem. All the clueless rabble of the global warming movement can pry their fat asses on to a "green" airplane if they can find one and fly to China, india, Russia, and all the "Stans" and have a *****fest with them. Oh wait, they would be told, "go to Hell, we have a country to run, people to feed, and industry to support and grow, either leave or we will shoot you". Something they need to hear more often. Thanks, I just had to vent. I'm better now..........really.

Yeppers, that pretty much covers it......
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