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-   -   Broke Injection pump Timing Device BOLT!!! (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/238949-broke-injection-pump-timing-device-bolt.html)

Beagle 12-02-2008 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theo3000 (Post 2036728)
I'm afraid that's EXACTLY what I did. :( I didn't see any obvious damage when I corrected it, but there may be a fine crack that I couldn't see. I'll try to get a DV at the pick and pull, but setting the timing will be kind of hit and miss.

There should be no reason to replace the D-valve. The problem would be at the bottom of the metering piston where it sits into the cam follower (see diag.)it is thin and flimsy there and that is where they usually bend or break.

BTW - You should be able to remove the broken bolt with a sharp pointed scriber, it shouldn't be tight. Another trick is to take a pencil with a rubber on the end put Super glue it and press onto broken thread and gently screw out. Both have worked for me on many occasions:).

good luck!

theo3000 12-02-2008 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle (Post 2036761)
There should be no reason to replace the D-valve. The problem would be at the bottom of the metering piston where it sits into the cam follower (see diag.)it is thin and flimsy there and that is where they usually bend or break.

If I remove the DV, can I pull the metering piston out to check for damage, or is extensive dissasembly of the IP required?

Thanks for sharing your expertise. I appreciate all the help I can get.:)

theo3000 12-02-2008 08:40 PM

Whew....
 
I got the IP out, and everything looks fine to the naked eye. Had to remove the oil filter canister. Absolutely no way for the IP to come out otherwize. What a job. I'm beat. I'll post pics in a bit, but the only thing that looks messed up is the end of the shaft where the timing device spun. From there back looks fine.

Is there anything in particular I should be looking for?

Thanks

yellit 12-02-2008 09:42 PM

IP woes
 
I sent an email to the local Bosch IP Guru to see what he thinks about this....If I do not hear back I will call or go by the shop tomorrow to get his thoughts on this... I bet he has seen this before........

Beagle 12-02-2008 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theo3000 (Post 2037226)

If I remove the DV, can I pull the metering piston out to check for damage, or is extensive dissasembly of the IP required?

but the only thing that looks messed up is the end of the shaft where the timing device spun. From there back looks fine.
Is there anything in particular I should be looking for?
Thanks

Fuel Pump: Do not loosen the 2 nuts clamping the element flange or the pump will need re-calibration. Put the spline connecting sleeve onto the pump and turn clockwise by hand. Look for any difference in the feel of #1 to the other four. is it noticably tighter or easier?? #1 is when the missing spline lines up with the setting mark. If you detect no difference put back and run it.

Shaft: Use a small flat oil stone to clean off the high spots where it has picked up.Take great care here not to remove material from the shaft diameter. a micrometer will help identify the high spots. Don't use a file!

Timer bore: Use a small round oilstone to do likewise in the bore untill you have restored a close slide fit with the shaft. This is important - take your time.

theo3000 12-02-2008 10:43 PM

Pics
 
5 Attachment(s)
Not the best, but the part I'm most concerned with, the shaft, shows the defects pretty clearly. It's not as mangled as it looks in the pics, but it definitely took some hits.

I think I should replace the shaft, but pulling an IP at the pick and pull is not something I look forward to. Where on the shaft is the woodruff key slot? I can't make it out at all!

Thanks!

theo3000 12-02-2008 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellit (Post 2037286)
I sent an email to the local Bosch IP Guru to see what he thinks about this....If I do not hear back I will call or go by the shop tomorrow to get his thoughts on this... I bet he has seen this before........

Thanks Yellit. That would be awesome!

theo3000 12-02-2008 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle (Post 2037304)
Fuel Pump: Do not loosen the 2 nuts clamping the element flange or the pump will need re-calibration. Put the spline connecting sleeve onto the pump and turn clockwise by hand. Look for any difference in the feel of #1 to the other four. is it noticably tighter or easier?? #1 is when the missing spline lines up with the setting mark. If you detect no difference put back and run it.

Everything sounds and feels the same on all cylinders. A gradual buildup of tension, a very precise sounding ching, with a sudden release of the tension.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle (Post 2037304)
Shaft: Use a small flat oil stone to clean off the high spots where it has picked up.Take great care here not to remove material from the shaft diameter. a micrometer will help identify the high spots. Don't use a file!

I'll confess, I used some emery cloth to try to take the woodruff debris off in order to remove the timing device. I think I'll have to eat some wheaties before I go to the pick and pull, and psych up for another IP pull, assuming they have something compatible.

Are the shafts identical between different IP's?


Thanks Beagle!

Beagle 12-02-2008 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theo3000 (Post 2037342)
Not the best, but the part I'm most concerned with, the shaft, shows the defects pretty clearly. It's not as mangled as it looks in the pics, but it definitely took some hits.

I think I should replace the shaft, but pulling an IP at the pick and pull is not something I look forward to. Where on the shaft is the woodruff key slot? I can't make it out at all!

Thanks!

Yes, I'm afraid your shaft is toast. Usually when the key shears while running the damage is minimal as the engine stops immediately. All the cranking has left it beyond redemption. How is the bore in the timer? You may have to replace that too. The bronze bushing also looks deeply scored on the end face and you will need to check end float. I think I can see the slot on top of the first pic - it is there somewhere! Look for timer, shaft and bushing in the junk yard.

Quote:

Everything sounds and feels the same on all cylinders. A gradual buildup of tension, a very precise sounding ching, with a sudden release of the tension.
Well that is good news! Run it and hope for the best - there is a plan B but I won't go there now!

Beagle 12-02-2008 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theo3000 (Post 2037358)
Are the shafts identical between different IP's?

No they are not and yours is one of the last. I see on yours the inner woodruff key is deleted with an oil hole instead. You will nead to make careful comparison with earlier versions.

theo3000 12-03-2008 12:46 AM

Shopping list
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here's what I'll be looking for at the P&P, but those "From model year 1985 on" parts will be tough.

yellit 12-03-2008 12:47 PM

IP woes
 
Bosch IP guy said to check for free rack movement through the entire 360* revolution of the cam...

Especially the area of #1 plunger travel where the jam would have occured.....

Remove delivery valve parts to observe plunger rotation when moving the rack.....

It does not rotate much but it should move without binding....

You can see this by just removing the delivery valve parts you removed to begin with.....

(Do not remove any other fuel element parts like Beagle stated in the posts....)

theo3000 12-03-2008 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellit (Post 2037808)
Bosch IP guy said to check for free rack movement through the entire 360* revolution of the cam...

Thanks Yellit!

Off to the P&P - my neighbor loaned me his car. It's inspiring how many people have stepped up to help me.:)

Thanks everyone, and wish me luck!

jt20 12-03-2008 02:12 PM

Theo.

Do you have a complete manual? Check section 05-412

it talks about the different shafts and their applications. The later models were an upgrade and can be used on all the turbo models with other related parts.

jt20 12-03-2008 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle (Post 2037426)
No they are not and yours is one of the last. I see on yours the inner woodruff key is deleted with an oil hole instead. You will nead to make careful comparison with earlier versions.


Beagle, I am a bit confused. Are you referring to his pictures of the timing shaft or do you have another source other than the FSM for these pumps and related parts?

Again, the FSM is not supplying the same amount of detail as you are.


Both shaft models are showing a single key at the end where theo's is badly worn.


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