Good point. Mercedes never offered the 617 turbo engine in the 300GD. I was forgetting that. Mine had the turbo engine already swapped in when I got it. The original engine (88 hp) is a real dog in this heavy vehicle.

At least it was a very minor engine swap project in the G though.

__________________
1995 E300 200k
1981 300GD unknown km

So hold on. How much does yours weigh 300GD??? That should resolve the issue of whether or not it'll be enough power since I'm sure the G's are probably somewhere in the same arena with my Range Rover. I know guys have put them in a few 4Runners and I don't think their too far on the lite side, so I'm sure it'll be fine, I just want a little more umph and efficiency.

Also, yes I am kind of in the mood for a tinker toy, but if I have the opportunity in a couple years when I'm done with this thing I'll probably seriously look at getting an old 280 and converting it. By then I should have more than enough experience with the motor and it's quirks to make the swap much less of a hassle. To be honest. I've thought of just fixing this thing up and turning a profit on it, but I'm just not that kinda guy when it comes down to it. I want to tinker.

Plus, I can use the old air-suspension pump for an onboard compressed air supply...not a bad thing to have when you need air...and all I'd have to do for that on the Rover is install a manual switch to engage the pump.

I'll look over in the G-forum, thanks 300GD, but I was really hoping to get engine info from these guys :/...

By the way. What is the best manual for the motor on this? I saw in another post that someone said the haynes was better for pictures, but I wasn't sure if that's for the motor or the whole car. I'd have to order either one online or from a dealer, and I'd like to know which one you think is the better of the choices. Factory, Haynes, Bentley? Looking for all those go/no-go tolerances that are mentioned in some of the rebuild posts.

Did anyone have any feedback on 617 vs 603? I've seen the differences listed reguarding the head updates and the different injector pumps, etc. Any insight from someone that has had both?

Factory manual is better than Haynes for the engine. Don't know about Bentley.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

The biggest differences between the 617 and 603 are: power, noise level, maintenance, efficiency, smoke, weight. The 603 is better in all of these respects.

The 617 is going to be less expensive perhaps, and some believe more durable, but I've owned two properly-maintained 603s with no head cracks at ~250,000miles, have one open in the shop right now (project) with all of the honing marks still good in the cylinders, they are a very good engine. OTOH there's a 617 in the local junkyard that ate the timing chain.

But I digress, too many opinions and too little fact. The 606 turbo will have more power still, but is nearly impossible to find and therefore expensive.

After one Vanagon engine swap, and one in a spitfire, it is my opinion that the swap costs much more than the engine or engine reciprient, so choose the engine carefully. Once you're finished you'll be glad you went with a good engine.

Since the original 4.0 in the Rover was IIRC 188hp, the 603 around 150, you're losing a bit already, but have room for an aftercooler to allow more boost/fuel, probably can get to the 188-200hp mark without too much expense nor extra strain on the engine. The 617 not so easily with a counter-flow head.

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

Actually, the motor in it is the 3.9, as it's a County Classic model (they sold the newer P38 in 95 also, which had the 4.0). So you're saying the 603 is lighter than the 617??? Why is the maintenance better? and we are speaking of the motor that still has almost no electronics on it correct?

Also, what do you mean by counter-flow with the 617 head? Unfortunately, for the time being at least I already have a 617. I would seriously consider getting a 603 in the future (I think the guy that I got the 617 from has a 603 coming out of another rusted out 300SD sometime in a couple months he said). I was planning on using an intercooler on whichever one I go with, as I already have one spare from an old Volvo 740 Turbo that should work just dandy.

THANK YOU. THIS IS EXACTLY THE TYPE OF INFORMATION I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR!!!!!

Steve

Om603 might be a VERY tight fit, if your planning to do so with a om603 i would relocate the radiator, arrange it like what AUDI dose... Its best if your go with the Cummins 4BT It lots easier to install, Price range around $1,300 $2,700 for engine and trans engine alone is $1100 to $800. The ultimate is using a dodge sprinter engine but you'll be paying 13K for the engine and 8K for the transmission and 6K for all the computers and SENSORS, unless you find a wrecked sprinter for 5K than it's worth it.... If you put a OM617 in that your not going to like the ride not just power loss but HARSH TRANNY SHIFTING.... I was planning on doing one on a discovery ... I gave up and abandon until i either won a lottery (min 40K) or got a very good job a and retire early...(around 30 )

__________________
Current Garage
2008 Mercedes GL320 CDI 188k mi Repair/Work in progress
1994 S350 160k mi Garage Queen & prepping for repairs
2005 E320 CDI 203k mi Healthy & Daily Driver
1994 S350 357k mi Retried as parts car
1984 300TD 214k mi Blown OM617 Poss OM603 Swap??

Sold
1987 300SDL 200K+
1994 S320 181K mi
2008 E320 Bluetec 127k mi
1999 S420 130K mi
1980 240D 360k mi
15+ Others that has come, stay and gone

GONE, BUT NOT FORGOTTEN
1995 E320 SE 220k mi
1984 300SD 350k mi

The 4BT is VERY loud, that's a no-go, and it's heavy as crap for the size...

I can do whatever is needed for fit, but I'm more worried about weight as the motor coming out of the Rover is supposedly around 400lbs (with accessories).

I thought about the sprinter motor, and I could have done it significantly cheaper than you suggested...would have just bought a motor from an old 2.7 and rebuilt it myself...did see a few older wrecked Sprinters for ~4K or so...which would have included much more than just the electronics and motor (I wouldn't have used the transmission anyway, but...). I'd rather wait till WVO technology improves a little before I venture in that direction, but it will probably be my next venue seeing as it's certainly lighter than the OM617 and produces significantly more power (well until I'm done with the 617 at least).

As for the Transmission shifting hard, I'm not even thinking of using the Mercedes transmission and the 4HP22 on the Rover is electronically controlled, so there are things you can switch out/adjust on it to make it shift properly. Not worried about it. There's still a chance I'll be doing the shifting anyway via Getrag 262 (from an e28 535i).

I'm in the middle of rebuilding the Rover motor for the time being and I CAN'T WAIT to have that wiring harness OUT!!! Along with all the ignition and injection junk...the 617 will be a breath of fresh air compared to that thing I believe. If anyone wants a rebuilt 3.9 Rover motor... (probably not on here, but...).

4k for a sprinter engine? Are they CRD or IDI
I looked all over e bay and they are at 10k+

__________________
Current Garage
2008 Mercedes GL320 CDI 188k mi Repair/Work in progress
1994 S350 160k mi Garage Queen & prepping for repairs
2005 E320 CDI 203k mi Healthy & Daily Driver
1994 S350 357k mi Retried as parts car
1984 300TD 214k mi Blown OM617 Poss OM603 Swap??

Sold
1987 300SDL 200K+
1994 S320 181K mi
2008 E320 Bluetec 127k mi
1999 S420 130K mi
1980 240D 360k mi
15+ Others that has come, stay and gone

GONE, BUT NOT FORGOTTEN
1995 E320 SE 220k mi
1984 300SD 350k mi

I'm pretty sure a W460 LWB G-wagen would be a bit heavier than your rig - that was one of the good points about the Classic; Rover did a good job of keeping the weight reasonable. So yes, an OM617, even in stock trim, can provide enough power. Besides, you can always compensate for low power-to-weight with sufficient gear reduction. Engines like the ones under discussion are even used to power UNIMOGs, which are MUCH heavier vehicles. The real question is, how fast do you want to go?

My Gs have the stock 4.88 axles. As such, they are slow beasts - petrol and diesel alike - and are hard to drive in traffic. They just weren't built for that. I could try to hotrod the motor in the GD but I don't think it would make a lot of difference in street driveability. What axles are you planning to use in the Rangie? Also, what is your intended use for the vehicle? Mostly on-road or off-road?

I like the factory OM617 service manual. You really can't go wrong with that. But I have a Haynes 300D manual too and have found it helpful as well.

__________________
1995 E300 200k
1981 300GD unknown km

Hi,

Swapping a mid-eighties motor into a 95 might cause problems with your local emissions/registration authority.

In my jurisdiction (British Columbia) it is verboten to swap an earlier model year motor into a vehicle. Luckily this only applies to the heavily-populated Greater Vancouver area, but it definitely limits the resale possibilities. In others, you might find the fuel type change requires an inspection or there might be rules regarding if the engine was ever offered as a factory option.

Its a good idea to check your local laws before investing the time to do the swap.

For an easy swap, take the entire engine and transmission assembly from a sedan. Preferably a write-off or non-restorable one, these cars are becoming classics and its a sin to rip one apart for the goodies. If you do take the entire drivetrain, you'll just need to fabricate some motor mounts, and get a custom driveshaft made up, plus some adapters for the output flanges.


Cheers,

Michael

This would leave out the 4WD part though, including the entire driveline is a much more expensive adaptation.

And yes, registration etc. should be considered.

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

The 617 engines are a lot cheaper to get, and have no electronics. the 603 is smoother, more powerful, has head cracking problems, and has some electronics involved.
I'm not sure if you can delete the ecu from the IP on the 603. It's still a really long six cylinder motor so packaging might make your decision for you.
I'd recommend a cylinder head rebuild on the 617. The engines are super robust, and start amazingly well with good valve guides and proper valve adjustments.
You can adjust them for more fueling, but the general consensus is that the turbo sizing limits power, as well as the non crossflow cylinder head. I would keep it stock, with proper timing and the ALDA either shimmed or adjusted to your tolerance for smoke, and enjoy the torque! You won't be winning any drag races with either of these engines in a rover anyway, however your wheeling may be a lot better with the added low end torque! Keep us posted.

Nope, I'm in VA which is pretty lax.

Thanks for the posts guys, anything more is welcome .

I'm going to stick with the 617 for now and the I think the 4HP22 that came in the Rover...I don't want the MB transmission (no offense, just seems like a hassle, and the Rover trans is already geared for the Rover). I think the shiftpoints for the diesel might just work out ok since it's a small V8 that's in the Rover right now and the 617 is a relatively hi-revving diesel.

More later

Really looking for some photos of this project. I am in the same place, considering the 617 for my 85 classic and 65 SII 109.

Great project,

Would love to do the same.
How are you making the adapter? I would like to cut the bellhousing of the auto tranny of the MB and weld an aluminum plate to it bolt it to the RR tranny.
Are there any manuals available for the RR?

Good luck

__________________
85 MB 300TD with om616 4 spd
83 MB 300TD
83 MB 240D scrapped
82 MB 240D scrapped
97 Ford E350 diesel 4x4, WVO
94 Ford E350 4x4 diesel blown head..parts car
85 cherokee diesel 2.1, 300.000, WVO
85 cherokee diesel 2.1
85 lebaron convertible, to be electric
85 lada niva 4x4 with 1.9 peugeot diesel,
72 citroen DS 5spd, LPG
77 Jaguar XJS, LPG
73 corvette 350 auto
88 MB Gelande 240 GD military
98 Ford E350 mini bus to be new 4x4 camper