I think that all the previous responses are all telling you the same thing - the 123 is engineered well but was not designed as a sports car. Lower it, put some stiffer shocks on it, increase sway bar stiffness and then report back. I think 123's were rallied but different suspension set up -good luck!

ah, ok. thanks for that. i do consider people's opinions, but the delivery of the opinion often makes a difference in whether people accept it or not. i'm sure you and many others are far more experienced than I am in this chassis, although to my credit, i've disassembled thousands of w123 parts and know my way around it

i like your idea of lowering it and putting some stiff shocks on it. just need to know what kind of shocks to put. i'm not going for a sports car feel. just something equivalent to what a 190e rides like on bilstein sports and stiff springs.

i've got three 190's, one with bilstein/eibach, another with bilstein/h&r, and another with a full h&r cup kit. granted the w123 doesn't have the handling capabilities/potential of a w201, but if I can source myself some stiffer springs and intend to cut them down to suit my desired ride height, i'm going to need to plan ahead for the proper shocks to go with them, so i don't end up with set of bilstein hd's and blow them out prematurely.

these cars were all the rage in germany and still are among the die-hard. i just refuse to believe that no company out there makes sport shocks for them, even if it's a brand that's obscure over here in the US.

I think you may be in new territory here, this is where shade tree mechanics meets experimentation unless you can find someone who raced 123's. I would read up on how ride height affects handling including lower profile tires, stay with bilstein and replace all rubber suspension bushings as they do fatigue -good luck!

i'm not in new territory, and as i stated several times before, i'm not looking to race my w123. did you even read my posts warmblood, or am i misreading yours? i'm simply looking to tighten up the handling on my car, and was wondering if someone knew of any sport shocks, not for suspension theory.

as a point of fact, i own three 190e's, all in various stages of suspension upgrade, as I stated before. i've experimented with all kinds of springs and swaybars on the 190e chassis, including r129, w124, etc. i've had no less than 15 different kinds and sizes of wheels and tires on my 190's, so again, not new territory there, either. one of my 190e's even has an h&r cup kit, and handles very well as far as i'm concerned. so i'm far from a rookie when it comes to mercedes suspensions of this general era, bearing in mind the w123 has a totally different suspension. on the w123, i've removed several swaybars, i've fiddled with springs, removed steering hubs/spindles, so I'm familiar enough with the chassis.

it's clear to me that people are more interested in giving me advice i'm not looking for, rather than the specific information i am looking for. either that, or there are no sport shocks for this chassis. either way, if the mods want to close this thread (preferably before another guy tells me to look into my tire size and tells me to look into buying another kind of mercedes), that would be fine with me.

There are no "sport" shocks for the W123 that I know of. The closest you will find is the heavy duty bilstiens.

You would be supprised how well a W123 can handle with some vogtland springs and a fatter rear sway bar...I just need to get it off the 14" meats now...

__________________
1979 240D- 316K miles - VGT Turbo, Intercooler, Stick Shift, Many Other Mods - Daily Driver

1982 300SD - 232K miles - Wife's Daily Driver

1986 560SL - Wife's red speed machine

I thought there actually were some sport shocks for the 123. No matter, the hd will work fine.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I read that the rear springs off the W123 gasser coupe are a progressive type. something to look into.

(NOTE: Just something I read, not trying to throw vinegar into the pudding)

Charlie

__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

I have done a couple things to my coupe so here are my seat of the pants opinions. in this order:

replaced 14" bundts with 16" wheels lower profile tires, immediately felt better in corners

replaced auto with manual. the manual control feels more spirited when leaving corners, not what I would call power steer or planting the rear but feels more controllable. I tend to wind RPMs up to get this feel which is not really doable with the auto

replaced front springs with vogtlands, this brought my front down a little, didnt seem like a big improvement

replaced rears with vogtlands a few weeks later, this helped more than the front, but not as much as I hoped.

changed to 17" wheels with very low profile tires wide tires, helped a little in the coreners, ride is MUCH harsher and less enjoyable

replaced 17" wheels with 16" wheels, little more sidewall and less width made a small difference in high speed corners but the OA feel of the car is way better

next step. replace 16" with 15" wheels and a little more sidewall. I find that performance at the cost of ride is not waht I want. I now have a set of 15" Ronal R9's that I think will swing it a little more to the confort side and still be a lot better than stock due to the springs

in summary. I like the lowering and it helped the most of everything once I got all 4 corners lowered. in the end it never performed as well as I hoped so I pushed back the other direction. tire side wall size did make a small difference but I personally like a little softer ride than the 245/45/17 224/45/17 provided, so much so I am going one more step to 205/60/15 all the way around. the handling was never great with any of these so the little loss of handling and large gain in comfort is where I am landing

__________________

1982 300CD Turbo (Otis, "ups & downs") parts for sale
2003 TJ with Hemi (to go anywhere, quickly) sold
2001 Excursion Powerstroke (to go dependably)
1970 Mustang 428SCJ (to go fast)
1962 Corvette LS1 (to go in style)
2001 Schwinn Grape Krate 10spd (if all else fails)

hey, now we're talkin'. would love to source some vogtland springs. are they readily available or a custom order? you got a part number for me?

i guess, if hd's are the only thing out there, i'll give them a try. but customizing shocks isn't that hard so long as you know how to weld or have a good machine shop. i bet if I asked bilstein, they could provide me with the specs of the hd shocks, such as diameter, length of cylinder, length of piston, piston travel length, etc. then it would be a matter of finding another shock of the same specs, but with a shorter travel length of the piston, and somehow retrofitting it to the bracket that holds the w123's front shock to the lca. anything's possible...

as for rear swaybar, what other mercedes swaybars are a straight swap, with maybe a bit of cutting on either end? i'm no stranger to that, either, i've put 500e front swaybar on my 190e, just used an angle grinder to cut off an inch off each end, and used the correct bushings and w124 swaybar brackets, so i don't mind going the diy route if there's a beefier swaybar out there.

lutz, i like your ideas. i know for a fact i'm using the modern CLK bundt wheels, as they are the lightest (13-14lbs each), in place of the original bundt wheels, and for tires, i'm looking to go somewhere in the range of 205-55-16 to 215-60-16, depending on how much fender gap i want.

as for the testing with the springs, maybe they felt a little 'bottomed out' due to the fact that you were riding on stock or hd shocks? i remember my first attempts at lowering my 190e with the stock original shocks (bilstien comfort or equivalent). i basically put 400e springs on the 190e, and cut off a few coils until the 4" or so of fender gap was cut to about 2". total bottom-out on the corners with this setup. but as soon as i put bilstein sports on there, it was a huge improvement. so maybe the shocks were the 'weakest link' in your suspension attempts?

but yeah, i'll definitely be on the lookout for these vogtland springs everyone's raving about

haha, by all means, throw some vinegar. it's a free country

yeah, i would think that the coupe, being a lighter body than the sedan, would actually have slightly softer springs. i'd have to take a look at the colored stripes on the springs themselves. if they're anything like a 190e, the 16v's had sls in the rear (it was also an option on non-16v), and with the SLS struts, they had to put a softer spring back there. so it stands to reason that any w123 that had sls in the rear has a softer rear spring, and all other w123's had springs that were made based on the overall weight of the car (with/without passengers), which is stamped on the data plate on the driver's side door jamb. again, something to look into, though and i'll check into it

yeah. i'm thinking after a lot of research, i will just eventually probably give up and go along with this conclusion. but it's fun to consider possibilities. i'm one to really fiddle with suspension. like i said, one of my 190's has an h&r cup kit and a 500e front swaybar. i'm one evo2 rear sway bar away from my ultimate suspension on that one. but that's a totally different beast, and i can't judge the w123 or compare it to that one.

You are right sir ....bilstein does infact make a "sport shock" for the w123 and for the w116 and w126 as they are the same shock. However for the w126 they are called "sprint" not sport and they are still available, but only for residents of the Uk or Europe.

I have the part numbers straight from bilstein them selves.

__________________
Wie lange wird Ihr Auto leben?

It takes a little work; BUT

Bilstein makes a set of shocks typically used by IMCA racers in both alloy and steel bodies. <google SN and ASN type Bilsteins>.

The top rod ends are removable. The valve rates can be set by
any shock dyno shop to your settings. They use the "standard" 46mm shim set, so they can be linear or digressive rates as well. External gas cannisters
are an option; in the rear, you'll need to park them under the seat of make a bracket to mount to the subframe.

You'll need to make your own tie bars and clevis mounts for the bottom end.
An old pair of strut inserts from a BMW or Porsche insert, and probably a gazillion others, can be cut off, drilled and tapped 12mm x 1 to create a set of tops studs.

I measured the travel from my old 240D rears, and it is 5-3/8"; so for your application, you'll need to find 5" shocks. The catalog is available at bilsteinus site.

hope this helps. I'm working on a set for the rear of my TD. I have pictures of the top and bottom parts, as well.

--frankb

__________________
--frankb

1982 300TD 617.912 <NLA> . 1975 2002 E10-EFI . 1976 914c6 . 1983 MG LMIII <NLA>. 1988 Montero / 616<NLA> . 2001 TLS . 2005 Saab 9-5 Wagon