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  #31  
Old 07-26-2009, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sev View Post
haha, by all means, throw some vinegar. it's a free country

... and with the SLS struts, they had to put a softer spring back there. so it stands to reason that any w123 that had sls in the rear has a softer rear spring, and all other w123's had springs that were made based on the overall weight...
Turns out that its a bit more complicated than that on the W123. The factory service manual, in section 34?, lists around 15 different front and rear spring rates , wire thicknesses, and unloaded lengths. So,
depending on how your car was equipped and what ride height weas desired, it may have springs varying 30mm in OAL, from memory .... so, even with SLS,
higher rate springs were available, typically for "rough road" service.

Also Coil Spring Specialties can wind up springs to YOUR length and wire specs for a Very Reasonable Price. I just received my first set from them last week. As one who has cut and ground ends before, they get a very big from me.

hth.
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1982 300TD 617.912 <NLA> . 1975 2002 E10-EFI . 1976 914c6 . 1983 MG LMIII <NLA>. 1988 Montero / 616<NLA> . 2001 TLS . 2005 Saab 9-5 Wagon
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  #32  
Old 07-26-2009, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sev View Post
i like your idea of lowering it and putting some stiff shocks on it. just need to know what kind of shocks to put. i'm not going for a sports car feel. just something equivalent to what a 190e rides like on bilstein sports and stiff springs.
.

Piccies of Coil Spring Specialties, Bilstein IMCA shocks, and miscellaneous parts.

Coil Spring Spltys, Kansas City: custom 400mm long springs:

http://picasaweb.google.com/franklynb0/TheDefinitiveCPRProjectPhotos#5362785727869947666

... with IMCA type alum body shocks; later versions of this shock have coilover
threads built onto the body, removable lower rod ends, and schrader ports for external gas cylinders. They're all rebuildable, which makes the investment different from "one-time use" sort of shocks ... for me, at least.

http://picasaweb.google.com/franklynb0/TheDefinitiveCPRProjectPhotos#5362785727790196034

here's the old pair of 2002 ,or perhaps audi200 strut inserts; when i take out a set of struts I put them aside for later salvage. the shafts are case hardened and ground, and make a fabulous, cheap source of high performance steel shafting!

http://picasaweb.google.com/franklynb0/TheDefinitiveCPRProjectPhotos#5362785728042747538

MB springs are "closed and ground" at the top end to provide a nice, squeak-free mating surface that won't cut into the rubber spring pad. The grinding is an operation that adds significant cost, and most manufacturers skip it. I saved some money by specifying "closed" ends rather than "closed and ground". I expect to change spring pads a little more often. NONE of my BMWs, Porsches or Audi's had ground ends,
from memory -- other than those converted to coilovers. Since I'm going to make my own spring pads at some point, I can always machine the notch into the pad.

http://picasaweb.google.com/franklynb0/TheDefinitiveCPRProjectPhotos#5362785731501863314

I bought an out of service 20 shimset kit from Kenny Hendrick's Motorsports shop when they converted to the newer NASCAR shock. Even new, these shim packs are only a few bucks a set.

http://picasaweb.google.com/franklynb0/TheDefinitiveCPRProjectPhotos#5362785729544758546

Since you don't know exactly what you've got until you dyno them, I wanted to have a range to "bracket" my adjustments on the "rallybeater TD" project.

hth.

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1982 300TD 617.912 <NLA> . 1975 2002 E10-EFI . 1976 914c6 . 1983 MG LMIII <NLA>. 1988 Montero / 616<NLA> . 2001 TLS . 2005 Saab 9-5 Wagon
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  #33  
Old 08-03-2009, 09:58 PM
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frank, awesome post dude. so, the new spring you got for your 300td is longer, but is still a lowering spring, because the the 300td has the sls in the rear, and thus the spring is softer (three compressed coils on one end--guess the sls springs are progressive not linear?).

do you think this custom shock you got would work on non SLS models? I haven't checked yet--are the rear shocks on the non-td mounted inside the coil spring like the td models? if so your shocks and springs would be a great idea for lowering a w123. the only thing is, can I buy them, or must I have someone make them for me as a one-off?

also did you get a chance to test the spring rate of TD springs and how much stiffer are the aftermarket ones they made for you?
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  #34  
Old 08-14-2009, 12:21 PM
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85 300D 4spd+tow+h4
 
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Location: Atl Gawga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sev View Post
huh, good to know. i did read somewhere that upgraded sway bars are no longer available for sale as a new item anywhere online. i'll def be looking for one on ebay germany though
15mm rear sways are NLA. Once I posted they were available (after I bought mine) they all disappeared. The chances of finding one used are all but impossible. They were only used in LWB, Police TD's and TD's with additional weight package. Probably could be found on the coffin or ambulance wagons to. Since I have never seen any of those TD's for sale or being parted....

The front sway bar upgrade is fairly easy to find. Any turbo wagon will have it.

As far as sport shocks, yes there are options available. Bilstein has a custom line that you can build your own with the help of a consultant ($$$$) OR these people http://www.spax-suspension.co.uk/tsearch.php?search=Mercedes%20Spax

Also, the later model (124) shocks are virtually identical except for the bottom mount which could easily be made or old one reused. I also think Bilstein has some kits that you can use to do it.

Currently I am running HD's which are only 2 valved. What is really needed is a 3 valved shock.
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  #35  
Old 08-14-2009, 12:26 PM
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85 300D 4spd+tow+h4
 
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Location: Atl Gawga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklynb View Post


... with IMCA type alum body shocks; later versions of this shock have coilover
threads built onto the body, removable lower rod ends, and schrader ports for external gas cylinders. They're all rebuildable, which makes the investment different from "one-time use" sort of shocks ... for me, at least.
You have these shocks mounted on the car? How does it ride?
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http://superturbodiesel.com/images/sig.04.10.jpg
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1994 E320 Cabriolet
1995 E320 Touring
2001 Eurovan FOR SALE
1985 300D car, sold and missed.
OBK #42
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  #36  
Old 05-28-2010, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winmutt View Post
You have these shocks mounted on the car? How does it ride?
Well, that took a while!

"while I was in there" I decided to chamge rear end ratios, renew the seals
and shims, change all the half-shaft boots and inspect the subframe rubber
bushings.

I also fashioned a rolling carrier that enables me to get the subframe in
and out in single-handed fashion. Its been out a few times.

I took a road trip from WI to ME and baclk last week and can say that the
bilstein IMCA type shock works well. I'm sending the shocks out to have
them calibrated on a shock dyno, so I'll have more to report about
proper valve selection at that time.

I did end up shaving the coil height from 400mm to 370 to get "back to
neutral" camber. I'm scheming an adjiustable camber setup for the back,
but its more complicated than others I've tackled.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/9m6unjVd_TjgN0TSjxhuzw?feat=directlink

IMCA shocks also have a "proper" monoball type pivot at the bottom which I
think works well at the a-arm end. One might argue its adds to the handling
precision over a plain rubber mounted tee.
__________________
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1982 300TD 617.912 <NLA> . 1975 2002 E10-EFI . 1976 914c6 . 1983 MG LMIII <NLA>. 1988 Montero / 616<NLA> . 2001 TLS . 2005 Saab 9-5 Wagon
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  #37  
Old 05-28-2010, 09:44 AM
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85 300D 4spd+tow+h4
 
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I see no pics of the shocks. This was front and rear? Cost? I can't find much about the IMCA shocks online. Anyone know the damping rates of the HD line?
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1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1994 E320 Cabriolet
1995 E320 Touring
2001 Eurovan FOR SALE
1985 300D car, sold and missed.
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  #38  
Old 05-28-2010, 10:56 AM
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Just thought I'd share in case anyone's interested. You can get H&R springs for the W123, they just have to be ordered from Germany but any US distributor can order them. I still haven't put mine on yet so I can't really give a review but I'll post back when I get around to it.

The folks at H&R were super helpful so just give them a call and they can give you the correct part number for your application.
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  #39  
Old 06-30-2016, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthias08 View Post

I don't see a purpose for "sport" anything on a W123, they handle, as intended...
Stumbled upon an old thread, but thought id pop in.
As in post above, H&R springs and Bilstein b4 is what i run, it handles as a totaly different car than stock, with good ridequality.

I dont think it was the goal of the threadstarter, but when you put a diesel in there with 500hp + you need something better than stock around the corners and regarding brakes

Enginebay | Mercedes-Benz turbo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=190nqVM9txg
100-220km/h something pul (speedo lacks about 20-30km/h depending on speed)
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