A year ago, I put a manual transmission, flywheel, and clutch (from a 1987 190d 2.5) into my 1985 190d 2.2. Since then the car has been great, but I have noticed a lot of backlash in the drive train. I jacked up a wheel, and found the wheel would move several inches in 5th gear, and successively less in each lower gear. I decided the problem must be in the front end of the transmission or in the clutch. Today I dropped the trans, and indeed, I have a bad clutch plate. Here is my question:

Why is the clutch different on the gas and diesel versions of the 190? I understand the diesel flywheel is heavier, but why is the clutch different? I have been looking at clutch prices, and diesel clutches are over twice as much as gas clutches ($220 vs $90). The dimensions seem to be the same. I am not an agressive driver, and my clutches generally last forever. I am sorely tempted to get a gas clutch and see if it fits. If anyone knows I am making a mistake, please stop me.

The power pulses on a diesel are much rougher, so I suppose the diesel disc has different springs in the disc to compensate for the differerent movements caused by the power pulses.

I saved a hundred dollars or so by using a cheap clutch disc on my car with a oe pp. It shudders. I would not recommend doing the same. The tranny is too much trouble to pull and replace a disc which you saved a hundred or so on.

Just me.

Oh, and the only clutch failure I have ever had on a benz was a 250K mile oe clutch on a 240d which failed by the little springs breaking.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Thanks T,
I hadn't thought about the springs being tuned to the engine, but that makes some sense. I now have another question: Since I have a 2.5 transmission on a 2.2 car, should I match the clutch to the engine? It looks like the 2.2 clutch has a diameter of 200 mm, whereas the 2.5 clutch is 215 mm. Has anyone out there done this?

You probably want to match the flywheel.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Maybe check your CV shafts and differential. I have a Manual trans in my 300D, and my differential has far too much play.

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1982 300DT *4-speed*// proper 617 donor for conversion // W126 big brakes // front wagon swaybar // european lights & bumpers // rear headrests // lumbar support // warning triangle // overdrive water pump pulley & 9 blade fan // Too many more to list Dark blue/ Palomino.

1983 300D euro no longer a 4 speed. . swap/parts carr

The CV shaft/diff play would be the same, no matter what gear the tranny is in.

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RRGrassi


70's Southern Pacific #5608 Fairmont A-4 MOW car

13 VW JSW 2.0 TDI 193K, Tuned with DPF and EGR Delete.

91 W124 300D Turbo replaced, Pressure W/G actuator installed. 210K

90 Dodge D250 5.9 Cummins/5 speed. 400K

I suppose I should have the right flywheel, but I would expect the 2.5 flywheel to be heavier than the 2.2 flywheel, and I can't see how that would cause any harm to the clutch.

I am quite sure my backlash is in the clutch. If I put the clutch tool in the disk, I can rotate it back and forth about 3/4 inch. Oddly, the free play is inside the center of the disk where I can't see what is happening. The visible springs seem to be OK, and I don't see them move at all. The driveshaft and differential seems quite tight, which is what I would expect since the car only has 130K on it.

Before I posted this, I searched for "clutch" on this forum, and read all the threads I found. I couldn't find much information about this problem, and I suspect it is relatively rare. I can't imagine what kind of abuse could cause this problem, although I did use this car to teach my teenage daughter to drive a stick.

There should not be any free play. My clutch that failed by a spring in the disc breaking was being driven by my teenage son at the time.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Now that's interesting, I didn't know there was a difference between the clutches. I just did the conversion to 5 speed on my 190d 2.2 and I used the clutch, flywheel, pressure plate, and transmission from a 190e 2.3 and it has been perfect. I wonder if I'm in for long term issues....

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'84 190d 2.2 - Silver
Converted to 5-Speed
'84 190d 2.2 - Blue
Factory 5-Speed

'76 300D (W115)
Sold, found again in less auspicious circumstances

Personally I would not worry about it until I started noticing a problem. I suspect if you are not abusive it will last for years.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Sorry to dig up an old thread, was hoping to get more info about clutches and flywheels. About to install a 717.411 5-speed (pulled from an '84 190E 2.3 8V) in an '85 190D 2.2. I have an extra pressure plate and clutch for 190D and the one from the 190E smells burnt. My friend says it should still work, but if the diesel clutch is compatible with the gas transmission and works better with my engine, I would rather use that. If the "shudders" you mentioned happen during initial takeoff, I have definitely noticed this with my current 190D.

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1985 190D 2.2L 717.411 5-speed
1983 300D Euro OM617.950

Shudders on an organic plate are going to be from a worn pressure plate. The posts in this thread are questionable. I would imagine the 2.2 is an 8" clutch and the 85 should be 8.5". I would go with the bigger clutch.

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1995 E420 Schwarz
1995 E300 Weiss
#1987 300D Sturmmachine
#1991 300D Nearly Perfect
#1994 E320 Cabriolet
#1995 E320 Touring
#1985 300D Sedan
OBK #42

The car I mentioned that shuddered on takeoff after driving it regularly for a while stopped shuddering. Whatever was contributing to it apparently wore off.

The same thing happened with my current project 82 240d. When I first got it together it had a well worn original cutch which I chose to use. It shuddered on takeoff. I decided it might be the plate had taken on moisture and simply gave it a little extra rpm every time I took off. Now it is nice and smooth.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

On VWs at least gasser friction disks are different than diesel ones, the diesels have different springs and the slots that allow a bit of rotation are longer on one side. This gets rid of gear chatter at idle.

Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk

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1991 350SDL. 230,000 miles (new motor @ 150,000). Blown head gasket

Tesla Model 3. 205,000 miles. Been to 48 states!
Past: A fleet of VW TDIs.... including a V10,a Dieselgate Passat, and 2 ECOdiesels.
2014 Cadillac ELR
2013 Fiat 500E.