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Old 03-21-2010, 10:55 PM
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rebuilding 617 turbo, advice, opinions needed

Ive been trying to fix up an 85 wagon in another thread, and needed another motor. The motor that's in it has low compression and a bunch of other problems. I sourced another motor off of car-part dot com, and when that arrived, well, thats not in what you would call great condition either, although far better than the original motor.

Anyway, I went into the new motor as far as pulling the lower and upper oil pan, and every other external component to replace all leaking seals and whatnot, and I've decided that if Im going that far, I might as well rebuild the whole engine and be done with it. Partly it has to do with all the crap inside the cylinders, which is probably leaking valve seals, but maybe also from the EGR, not completely sure.

Ive never rebuilt a 617, so if anyone has any advice or opinions, id be much obliged.
First, its not a wagon engine (explanation in the other thread), the part number on the head is 6170160301, and on the block is R617014060.

I need to source rebuild parts, is this a good site for them?
I want to send the injectors and pump out to be rebuilt, how is the pump attached to the timing device? Can I just unbolt it from the back side and pull it out, or do I have to remove the chain first?
here are some pics so far-

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rebuilding 617 turbo, advice, opinions needed-5thcyl.jpg   rebuilding 617 turbo, advice, opinions needed-yard6171.jpg   rebuilding 617 turbo, advice, opinions needed-yard6173.jpg   rebuilding 617 turbo, advice, opinions needed-yard6172.jpg   rebuilding 617 turbo, advice, opinions needed-yard6174.jpg  

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Old 03-21-2010, 11:00 PM
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I'd email roy for a list of parts your motor will need. leave your phone# and Roy will call you back to go over recommendations.
that gunk is likely EGR crud,
the IP comes out without removing the chain.
If you get your original head rebuilt (assuming it has no cracks...) you can put it on your replacement motor.
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Old 03-21-2010, 11:12 PM
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The main thing is to get a copy of the FSM for these engines and study it..
it will also show when parts have been updated...and some that need to match others...
Most of the time there are three variations on a part for these engines... if they have updated the head gasket for instance... the latest is typically the one that runs coolest..so this can be important...
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Old 03-21-2010, 11:14 PM
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I was thinking about the switching the heads idea, I did determine that the cam on that motor is heavily worn compared to this motor, and of course I still have all the other SLS stuff removed already, so my conclusion was to just keep everything together so far.

thanks for the tip on Roy, I will do so. This motor is going to get a non EGR 116 intake/exhaust, so partly im interested in a good intense cleaning of the head, and the chain shows some pretty decent wear, so I was going to figure out how to replace it.

I also think that this replacement motor MAY have a leaking head gasket on the 5th cylinder. I can't be totally sure, but there is certainly major leakage going on back there, and its not from the valve cover.

I do need to get a copy of the FSM for this engine, thanks, wheres a good source for that?

This tensioner part is kind of alarming looking without the upper oil pan. I can't be depending on the pan to keep it square right? is this normal?
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Old 03-21-2010, 11:50 PM
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I can't tell much about the tensioner from that pic. what is alarming about it?
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:24 AM
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That oil pump chain tensioner does look misaligned and suspect.





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Old 03-22-2010, 12:24 AM
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Injection pump came flying off, thanks, nothing had to happen to the chain, (still has to be removed) 6 bolts and its out.

The tensioner is just twisted to the right, don't know if that normal, or what, it just bothers me. I have to get the FSM I guess first to know if this is what it normally looks like after you remove the upper pan.

This motor also needs work to the harmonic balancer and lower pulleys, which all took a major hit in shipping.

(delivery valve, how are you blowing the picture up?)
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Old 03-22-2010, 02:06 AM
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Factory Service Manual CD Set $19.99+$7 shipping
http://www.classictechlit.mbusa.com/MB/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Retail&category%5Fname=1009%28ClassicTechLit%29&product%5Fid=QL%2D6516%2D5610%2D02%28ClassicTechLit%29

You might want to be sure that the bearings that drive the timer shaft are replaced also.

New Vacuum Pump Ruined due to too much Timer Shaft End Play (the title from my notes).
second vacuum pump, help! on a trip-Toronto
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Old 03-22-2010, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dropnosky View Post
Ive been trying to fix up an 85 wagon in another thread, and needed another motor. The motor that's in it has low compression and a bunch of other problems. I sourced another motor off of car-part dot com, and when that arrived, well, thats not in what you would call great condition either, although far better than the original motor.

Anyway, I went into the new motor as far as pulling the lower and upper oil pan, and every other external component to replace all leaking seals and whatnot, and I've decided that if Im going that far, I might as well rebuild the whole engine and be done with it. Partly it has to do with all the crap inside the cylinders, which is probably leaking valve seals, but maybe also from the EGR, not completely sure.

Ive never rebuilt a 617, so if anyone has any advice or opinions, id be much obliged.
First, its not a wagon engine (explanation in the other thread), the part number on the head is 6170160301, and on the block is R617014060.

I need to source rebuild parts, is this a good site for them?
I want to send the injectors and pump out to be rebuilt, how is the pump attached to the timing device? Can I just unbolt it from the back side and pull it out, or do I have to remove the chain first?
here are some pics so far-
Send me an E-mail.
Title: Need OM617 rebuild part list.
I must have:
* VIN#.
* Year.
* Make.
* Model.

I will put it together, and CC "Phil" so he can price it all.




Have a great day.
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  #10  
Old 03-22-2010, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dropnosky View Post
...
The tensioner is just twisted to the right, don't know if that normal, or what, it just bothers me. I have to get the FSM I guess first to know if this is what it normally looks like after you remove the upper pan.

This motor also needs work to the harmonic balancer and lower pulleys, which all took a major hit in shipping.

(delivery valve, how are you blowing the picture up?)

The tensioner position is not normal, needs to be straight up with the chain.

The harmonic balancer issue sucks.

PM sent on the instructions of how to setup a picture.


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Old 03-22-2010, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dropnosky View Post
Injection pump came flying off, thanks, nothing had to happen to the chain, (still has to be removed) 6 bolts and its out.

The tensioner is just twisted to the right, don't know if that normal, or what, it just bothers me. I have to get the FSM I guess first to know if this is what it normally looks like after you remove the upper pan.

This motor also needs work to the harmonic balancer and lower pulleys, which all took a major hit in shipping.


(delivery valve, how are you blowing the picture up?)
shouldn't you file a claim with the shipper and get a different motor? I would.
damage of that magnitude is going to make using this motor EXPENSIVE...
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #12  
Old 03-22-2010, 10:14 AM
JB3 JB3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
shouldn't you file a claim with the shipper and get a different motor? I would.
damage of that magnitude is going to make using this motor EXPENSIVE...
Well, Im hoping most of the damage is to the outer pulley, and that there are no issues with the balancer. I have to get a puller though that will get that stuff off the front of the crank.
Of course, that brings to mind the quote- "wish in one hand and **** in the other, see which one fills up first"
The motor was pretty clearly removed from the car with a forklift and without unbolting the motor mounts, which has effectively destroyed both cast mount arms. (one was already shoddily welded back together, so I guess not the hugest loss)

The argument with the shipper is almost a topic of another thread, I have some calls in about all the incredible damage, shoddy removal, missing pieces, ect. I have had an incredible run of bad luck getting things shipped to me from yards.
I just got a flywheel back from the machine shop that had to be resurfaced, rebalanced, and a number of the teeth cleaned up on the starter ring because of extensive shipping damage due to poor packaging.

Im currently trying to match this block with a year and VIN, as soon as I do, I will shoot off an email to you Roy, thanks!
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:17 AM
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Answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by dropnosky View Post
Im currently trying to match this block with a year and VIN, as soon as I do, I will shoot off an email to you Roy, thanks!
Call the supplier and ask for the VIN#.
In most cases that is all I need..
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Old 03-22-2010, 07:06 PM
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Sourced VIN and embroiled myself into a classic A$$ covering contest with the yard. They will "get back to me" and will "identify guilty parties", so I won't hear from them again.

Ordered the FSM, thanks diesel911. Waiting on that to get here before I start removing the head and other things.

Here are some pics of the motor mount arms. One is reusable, but it has a low quality aluminum welding job of the sort someone like myself will minimal aluminum experience would do all the way around it and inside. That must have been a spectacular failure. The second is cracked off, and additionally stripped, so I will be taking both from the other motor when the time comes, assuming they are in decent shape.

Anyone know where I can get the timing chain crimping tool?
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:40 AM
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I would not spend money even on a chain yet till the crank and other internals are inspected. There might be some suprises waiting in there.

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