Where Do I Sign Up To Join The 5 Speed Club? - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Sev · #46 08-08-2010, 03:06 AM

easiest way, in my opinion, to remove the upper bellhousing bolt(s), short of having a custom made wrench, is to disconnect the prop shaft, loosen the motor mounts, and tilt the engine backwards. you can now access the bolt from under hte car in less time than it takes you to squeeze the custom tool in that crevice.

course, if you have a four cylinder car, there's really no problem reaching hte upper bolts

charmalu · #47 08-08-2010, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sev

on the w201 chassis, the getrag tranny was a different length than other manual or auto trans models. the rear half of the prop shaft is the same length, but the front half is a few inches longer because the getrag tranny is shorter than the regular manual. this also means that the shifter linkages are a different length. in other words, if putting this tranny into a w123, you will need the front half of the prop shaft and linkages as well.

The Getrag 5 spd Dog-Leg is 21 1/2 in long

The 5-spd OD is 18 1/2 long

The 4-spd 240D is 16 1/2

So how is the Getrag shorter? than which regular Manual?

I don`t know the length of Squiggle Dog`s 5-spd.

Charlie

Sev · #48 08-08-2010, 12:11 PM

you know what, i meant longer and shorter prop shaft, not shorter and longer prop shaft. good catch

Squiggle Dog · #49 08-08-2010, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sev

on the w201 chassis, the getrag tranny was a different length than other manual or auto trans models. the rear half of the prop shaft is the same length, but the front half is a few inches longer because the getrag tranny is shorter than the regular manual. this also means that the shifter linkages are a different length. in other words, if putting this tranny into a w123, you will need the front half of the prop shaft and linkages as well.

This transmission came out of a W123, so there would be no problem putting it into another W123. I plan on putting it into a W116, so I don't know if the W123 5 speed propeller shaft would be the correct length in a W116. The linkages may need adjustment, too.

Squiggle Dog · #50 08-08-2010, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmalu

The Getrag 5 spd Dog-Leg is 21 1/2 in long

The 5-spd OD is 18 1/2 long

The 4-spd 240D is 16 1/2

So how is the Getrag shorter? than which regular Manual?

I don`t know the length of Squiggle Dog`s 5-spd.

Charlie

What is this dogleg that I am hearing about? Once I have the correct length propeller shaft everything should bolt together, right?

Sev · #51 08-08-2010, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog

This transmission came out of a W123, so there would be no problem putting it into another W123.

that's exactly what i'm talking about. on the w201, there were getrag and at least three other non-getrag type manual transmissions. they were of different lengths. so if you are putting a getrag manual meant FOR a w123, into a w123 that originally had a non-getrag manual trans, then you will/may need at least the front half of the prop shaft and the shifter linkages. in other words it's not a direct swap even from the same chassis into the same chassis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog

I plan on putting it into a W116, so I don't know if the W123 5 speed propeller shaft would be the correct length in a W116. The linkages may need adjustment, too.

you will almost definitely need at least a front prop shaft, and one may not be made for the w116. you might need to have the front half of the one you have shortened or lengthened and then balanced professionally by a shop that knows what they're doing

Sev · #52 08-08-2010, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog

What is this dogleg that I am hearing about? Once I have the correct length propeller shaft everything should bolt together, right?

dogleg refers to the shift pattern on a shifter. it means that first gear is located back and to the left (not sure if they ever made a RHD version of dogleg--i know they didn't for Mercedes cars, but for other cars). reason for this is that when you are racing on a track, you will usually be shifting from second to fifth, and it's more convenient to have first gear in a separate gate and have the main gears you will be shifting into arranged in an H-pattern.

course if mercedes wanted to go ultra DTM on the 2.3-16v, they'd of put the ignition where the headlight switch is so you can hop into your car, turn it on with left hand and have your right hand to shift into first with

Squiggle Dog · #53 08-08-2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sev

that's exactly what i'm talking about. on the w201, there were getrag and at least three other non-getrag type manual transmissions. they were of different lengths. so if you are putting a getrag manual meant FOR a w123, into a w123 that originally had a non-getrag manual trans, then you will/may need at least the front half of the prop shaft and the shifter linkages. in other words it's not a direct swap even from the same chassis into the same chassis.

you will almost definitely need at least a front prop shaft, and one may not be made for the w116. you might need to have the front half of the one you have shortened or lengthened and then balanced professionally by a shop that knows what they're doing

I have the entire shifter assembly with linkage. I had planned on having the W116 driveshaft lengthened.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sev

dogleg refers to the shift pattern on a shifter. it means that first gear is located back and to the left (not sure if they ever made a RHD version of dogleg--i know they didn't for Mercedes cars, but for other cars). reason for this is that when you are racing on a track, you will usually be shifting from second to fifth, and it's more convenient to have first gear in a separate gate and have the main gears you will be shifting into arranged in an H-pattern.

course if mercedes wanted to go ultra DTM on the 2.3-16v, they'd of put the ignition where the headlight switch is so you can hop into your car, turn it on with left hand and have your right hand to shift into first with

I now understand! I think it will be okay. I plan on this being a daily driver, not a race car.

Billybob · #54 08-08-2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sev

on the w201 chassis, the getrag tranny was a different length than other manual or auto trans models. the rear half of the prop shaft is the same length, but the front half is a few inches longer because the getrag tranny is shorter than the regular manual. this also means that the shifter linkages are a different length. in other words, if putting this tranny into a w123, you will need the front half of the prop shaft and linkages as well.

That is interesting info, as the OP is talking about a 717.400 installation coming from a 123 and possibly going into a 116 I don't understand how what you're offering is very relavent though.

The 201 and the GETRAG that was used in the 2.3 16V application is unique and could not be installed in a 123 with a factorty installed diesel engine as it will not mate to any 615/616/617 engine. And as the OP has mentioned it might be installed in a 617 powered 116 can't be installed there either. Just for informational purposes the front sectionof the driveshaft in a 126 and a 116 is about a foot loonger than one in the 123 chassis.

The issue with swapping the 5 speed manual tranny into a diesl powered 123 is that the auto tranny driveshaft is to short and the 240D 4 speed driveshaft is too long, the driveshaft from a Euro 300d NA installation is just right, hence my advice to the OP to grab the driveshaft from the car he got the tranny from because the driveshaft from the 280E 123 is identical or very, very close and as such is worth something to people who need a 123 appropriate drive shaft and don't have one.

I've owned and sold now 4-717.400/1 GETRAG tranny installations, a Euro200D, a Euro 300D, a Euro 280TE and a Euro 280SE in addition I've got a complete setup from an 84 Euro 300D NA sitting in my shop now so I'm pretty familiar with the particulars.

Billybob · #55 08-08-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog

I have the entire shifter assembly with linkage. I had planned on having the W116 driveshaft lengthened.

None the less, you may need to alter the length of the linkages depending on any difference between the relative engine/shifter positioning dimensions of the 123 chassis from which they came and the relative engine /shifter positioning domensions of the 116 into which you hope to install.

Squiggle Dog · #56 08-08-2010, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

Just for informational purposes the front sectionof the driveshaft in a 126 and a 116 is about a foot loonger than one in the 123 chassis.

Good to know! I was wondering about this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

The issue with swapping the 5 speed manual tranny into a diesl powered 123 is that the auto tranny driveshaft is to short and the 240D 4 speed driveshaft is too long, the driveshaft from a Euro 300d NA installation is just right, hence my advice to the OP to grab the driveshaft from the car he got the tranny from because the driveshaft from the 280E 123 is identical or very, very close and as such is worth something to people who need a 123 appropriate drive shaft and don't have one.

Maybe I will get it to resell or use the front section to add to my W116 propeller shaft.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

None the less, you may need to alter the length of the linkages depending on any difference between the relative engine/shifter positioning dimensions of the 123 chassis from which they came and the relative engine /shifter positioning domensions of the 116 into which you hope to install.

I had planned on altering the linkage length if necessary.

Billybob · #57 08-08-2010, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog

Maybe I will get it to resell or use the front section to add to my W116 propeller shaft.

Well it will cost someone at least $300 to modify a 123 shaft to fit, I would think that the shaft from the donor car would be worth about $150 -200 to someone who needed one but didn't have one. I dont think you'll save that much if you use that part to extend the 116 shaft though, in addition the 123 shaft and the 116 shaft maye be different diameters so it might not work for that reason. Most likely the driveshaft shop will cut the ends off the frontand rear sections and take an appropriate size and length of pipe off their shelf and use that to create the spec'd part you want, the advantage is that they can replace universal joints if needed and then dynamically balance the shaft with the rear section.

So if it cost you $300 to build a 116 shaft and you offset that cost by $150-200 selling the 123 shaft that would seem the way to go if you're financially squeezed.

Squiggle Dog · #58 08-08-2010, 01:58 PM

I'll probably pull the propeller shaft when I go back for the headlight wiper assembly and just have my W116 shaft lengthened with tubing.

lutzTD · #59 08-08-2010, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

Well it will cost someone at least $300 to modify a 123 shaft to fit, I would think that the shaft from the donor car would be worth about $150 -200 to someone who needed one but didn't have one. I dont think you'll save that much if you use that part to extend the 116 shaft though, in addition the 123 shaft and the 116 shaft maye be different diameters so it might not work for that reason. Most likely the driveshaft shop will cut the ends off the frontand rear sections and take an appropriate size and length of pipe off their shelf and use that to create the spec'd part you want, the advantage is that they can replace universal joints if needed and then dynamically balance the shaft with the rear section.

So if it cost you $300 to build a 116 shaft and you offset that cost by $150-200 selling the 123 shaft that would seem the way to go if you're financially squeezed.

i got my DS shortened for $90. ask around, most DS shops will work with you

Billybob · #60 08-08-2010, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutzTD

i got my DS shortened for $90. ask around, most DS shops will work with you

The problem for the OP is not having a driveshaft shortened it is having one lengthend. He doesn't have the luxury of as 123 owners do an overly long 240D manual driveshaft to start with. It's possible to find a driveshaft longer than what he needs from a Euro126 with a four speed manual but I've only ever seen a single one in probably many humdreds of boneyard visits!

Shortening is a much simpler alteration as it only simply removing the end section, then the unnessessary section of pipe to bring things to the proper length, and finally reattachment of the end piece. Carefully done keeping the positioning of the parts intact you can probably get by without even having to balance anything afterwards.

Lengthening involves somehow getting both end pieces square and true ont he appropriate length of straight, true and nominally balanced center pipe and having everything function as a balanced unit in the end, a much more difficult proposition.

It will be interesting to watch how this works out for the OP.