What Would A 123 Sanden Conversion be Worth? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#1 08-28-2010, 08:30 PM

What would a kit be worth that included compressor mount, Sanden compressor, idler and hoses necessary for a bolt in substitution of your R4?

This kit would be for 616 and 617 engines.

compu_85 · #2 08-28-2010, 08:37 PM

New compressor? All parts and seals included?

-J

vstech · #3 08-28-2010, 09:24 PM

of the two cars I have with that setup, both have odd routing of the hoses... how would you do it?

t walgamuth · #4 08-29-2010, 05:35 AM

I'd be interested. I suppose it is price dependent to some extent. The sanden will work better or last longer or both?

aaa · #5 08-29-2010, 07:21 AM

What's special about the sanden again? If you're fabbing stuff can't you just pick any compressor?

JimFreeh · #6 08-29-2010, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaa

What's special about the sanden again? If you're fabbing stuff can't you just pick any compressor?

Well, it's common, efficient, relatively inexpensive.

Jim

charmalu · #7 08-29-2010, 03:08 PM

Here is a thread where I posted some pictures of a Sanden Compressor I found on an old Euro 123 in PNP.

I have the brackets etc to mount it on a 617.962 eng. but the Sanden bracket I have only uses the 2 forward mount holes on the side of the eng block the R-4 uses, not the third rear mount.

The Sanden also mounts on the front of the block just under the vacuum pump, where there is a threaded mount hole that the 617.952 does not have.

I think the eng I pulled the bracket off of was a 617.912.

Alternative compressor and/or mount for the Euro w123

about 4 months ago I found another bracket, this one is made of steel and the one above I listed is made of aluminium.
this second one is mostly there, but does seem to be missing some parts.

Charlie

#8 08-30-2010, 08:20 AM

Okay, thanks for the responses!

Going down the comments and questions one by one:

Compu85----Yes it would be a brand new, US made Sanden compressor with all pieces included except refrigerant. Compressors are shipped with a PAG charge.

vstech---There are a number of end plates available for the Sanden with different fitting orieintation. Depending on model, the hoses might have to be made on an exchange basis. Example would be the 617's with the horizontal metal line across the top of the engine. A soft line would have to be crimped on. If cores could be found, this could be done on an exchange basis, or customers line would have to be shipped for modification. I think you will see all this as a moot point at the end of this post.

Tom----Yes the Sanden is inexpensive, very durable and readily available. The Sanden is the mainstay of the auto a/c aftermarket for good reason. It can be mounted in any position with symmetrical mounting points and interchangable end plates. It also comes in models of varying capacity.

aaa----Sure you could pick whatever compressor you like and build a kit from it, but read the paragraph above. The Sanden is a natural for improving the compressor situation on the 123's equipped with the dreaded R4. These compressors are US made in Texas.

TimFreeh----Yes it's all those things.

Charmalu-----Thanks for the link and the pictures. That mount is quite different than the arrangement on my two Euro 240D's. On my cars, the compressor mounts in fixed position and an adjustable idler is mounted for belt adjustment. One of these cars I drove right at a half million miles with total reliability.

Now, I had in mind putting together such a kit that would allow the purchaser to simply remove the R4, bolt on the Sanden and connect the prefabricated hoses. Profit would have to be enough to cover engineering expenses. In the course of looking into this, however, I found a magic bullet that I will share with everyone as opposed to buying a few pieces, marking them up drastically and shipping them. There is no shortage of greedy vendors who are willing to do this. My personal morality and ethics will not let me engage in such greedy marketing.

I found that there is an end plate for the Sanden that will accept the R4 GM manifold connection. It appears that with a solid mount as I described above, an idler for belt adjustment and the R4 connection end plate on the Sanden, adaptation would be super easy. Since I haven't looked closely at a 617 since I started thinking about this, it MIGHT be that the vertical metal tube from the R4 might have to be bent for connection, but I don't think so.

When the heat breaks and I get a few other things done, I will see if I can get more info on the solid mount and idler that are on my Euro's.

Hope there's good food for thought in this thread.

pj67coll · #9 08-30-2010, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryBible

.

Hope there's good food for thought in this thread.

There certainly is. If I ever manage to acquire a 123 again it's something I'd certainly look into as I'd want to competely retrofit the entire ac system.

- Peter.

Shooter · #10 07-07-2011, 11:43 AM

Did this kit come to fruition?

charmalu · #11 07-07-2011, 11:54 AM

I doubt it, Larry Bible is not a member here any more.

One too many Battles over in Open Discussion.

Have you been following along in this discussion?

Compressor bracket... 1980 300SD

Charlie

leathermang · #12 07-07-2011, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryBible

It can be mounted in any position with symmetrical mounting points and interchangable end plates. It also comes in models of varying capacity.

The Sanden is a natural for improving the compressor situation on the 123's equipped with the dreaded R4. These compressors are US made in Texas.

I found a magic bullet that I will share with everyone as opposed to buying a few pieces,

I found that there is an end plate for the Sanden that will accept the R4 GM manifold connection.

It appears that with a solid mount as I described above, an idler for belt adjustment and the R4 connection end plate on the Sanden, adaptation would be super easy.

Since I haven't looked closely at a 617 since I started thinking about this, it MIGHT be that the vertical metal tube from the R4 might have to be bent for connection, but I don't think so......

Very interesting.... I wonder if 1980sd had seen this if he would have chosen the Sanden for his conversion ....

1980sd · #13 07-07-2011, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

Very interesting.... I wonder if 1980sd had seen this if he would have chosen the Sanden for his conversion ....

I have read every thread on this forum about putting a sanden on a 617. I have studied every picture of every bracket that is posted here...

I AM using a sanden for the reasons Larry talked about, just a 709 rather than the more popular 508. The aftermarket seems to be leaning towards the 709 as well. Not much difference in price.

The mounting dimensions are the same for either compressor. The york to sanden bracket will fit an SD505, SD507, SD508, SD510, SD709, SD5H14, SD7B10, SD7H10, SD7H13, AND SD7H15.

A generic sanden seems to run about $150, (Mine cost $70 because I got a good deal on a reman) the york to sanden bracket was $50, I still need to round up proper grade 8 bolts for the whole thing which should be about $20.

There are also the hoses. I got an AC hose kit marketed towards hot-rods and it cost about $100 and came with a bunch of hose fittings, hoses,clamps and a receiver/drier. With a "kit" you'd only need 2 pre made hoses and some adapters from O-ring to flare fittings. Hose is about $1/ft and end fittings seem to be about $5 each.

There is a GM manifold back for the sanden which would allow the old R4 manifold/hoses to be used but I don't think there would be enough clearance for it to work.

Doesn't look like Larry ever got into prototyping. Probably because it's a PITA with the risk of awesome failure...

leathermang · #14 07-07-2011, 12:51 PM

So the mounting spots are the same... but yours has a bigger body ?

1980sd · #15 07-07-2011, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

So the mounting spots are the same... but yours has a bigger body ?

Yep. The diameter is a little larger (5cyl vs 7cyl) and it's a little longer. There seem to be more heads available for the 508 but I chose the FK head 709 for the integrated service ports.

A lot of the lowriders, or whatever they are, use these compressors as air pumps for air bag systems

They use pre oilers or periodically pack them with grease to keep them lubed. Try that with an R4

The off-road crowd also uses them to build on board air systems.

View Poll Results: What Would an R4 to Sanden Replacement Kit be Worth?
$600	4	36.36%
$650	0	0%
$700	3	27.27%
$750	3	27.27%
$800	0	0%
$850	0	0%
$900	1	9.09%
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