240d sat a week, hard to start cold, easy when warm, now won't start - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

vstech · #1 01-13-2011, 06:30 PM

most older diesels will NOT start without fully functioning glow plugs. that's why I asked you how long you let them glow. I glow for 35 seconds, or when I hear it click, then turn it off and glow another 35 seconds, and try it. the puddle could be from the banjo, but it could also be from a fuel return line, or even the rear primary filter line could be leaking.
gray smoke just means it's trying to fire, but has not enough heat.
look around the bumper for a black cord. it might be tied to the tow hook under the bumper. plug it in.
can you define "all over the place" with respect to the ohms of the glow harness? they all should test around 8, but that does not mean they are good, it just means they pass the quickie test. simple way to test for sure is, let them glow for 35 seconds, then turn off the key and put your finger on the base of each plug. you should feel warmth to hot at the base. if it's stone cold, likely the plug is bad.

leathermang · #2 01-13-2011, 06:39 PM

"then turn it off and glow another 35 seconds,"
Don't turn it off .. just leave the key in the glow position for 30- 60 seconds before trying to start.. this is from the FSM... they even have a chart as to the temp the gplugs get to at different times engaged...

vstech · #3 01-13-2011, 06:40 PM

on an 80?

leathermang · #4 01-13-2011, 06:43 PM

"Also, does anyone know where to find an engine diagram with labels or explanations? I'm confused about the lines and their directions.
You had better stay away from your engine until you have researched more..
it is possible to really screw things up....
it sounds like you have found the area on the Injector pump which is never touched by normal people...only people with IP setting equipment... be careful.....and slow down...

if you regularly have smoke upon startup...
that is the typical symptom for worn valve stem seals...
it might cost less to have your indy install those at the time of the first valve setting.. some repeat take off would be avoided if you did... no way to fix them except to replace.. they are really cheap themselves....

caramel240d · #5 01-14-2011, 10:59 AM

leathermang, thank for the warning. I definitely won't go twistin' about in there. I'm still curious just to learn how it all works though.

I found out where the puddle is coming from-- picture below. It's the white plastic arm on the left that's leaking. I'll have to figure out if that mechanism is available for purchase. I thought it was diesel, but that can't be diesel. It's a yellow fluid. A friend tells me the fluid smells like cocaine, for what it's worth. That's coolant coming from there, right? Ironically, the wiper fluid container also developed a leak where the rubber hose meets the nipple.

Couldn't find the black cord.

I tried the touch test and let it warm for 50 seconds before feeling-- stone cold. Here are the resistance (in Ohms) results for the female large connector:

1- 2-5 slowly climbing .01 a second back and forth
2- 7-10 jumping erratically going all the way up to 55, sometimes freezing at 7.3
3- 18.4 to 18.6
5- 0.373
6- 1.136
8- 4.42

If my glow plugs are out, would that cause a progressively difficult start as the temperatures dropped? The time it took to start the car seems to be proportionate to the temperature dropping here in FL.

Thanks for all your input!!

79Mercy · #6 01-14-2011, 04:27 PM

Thats the heater valve, yes that is coolant that is leaking from there.

You car may not have a block heater.. if you do it will be screwed into the passenger side of the engine block behind the exhaust manifold.

Im not understanding why you have the ohm readings numbered 1-8, there is only 4 glowplugs. I suggest you remove all 4 gp's and apply voltage to them and see if they glow properly. Sometimes even when the ohm test is done correctly, it is misleading.

Yes, even in Florida you need glowplugs.

leathermang · #7 01-14-2011, 04:41 PM

You are extremely lucky to have that particular system.... it means you probably have the type one AC system.... ( check my signature.. LOL )...
The simplest and cheapest one to deal with... if you post picture of your dash over the console we can confirm that...
Most of these old cars do need glow plugs... even in Florida... but should not need block heaters.... your car ( and mine ) were sorta the low end of the cost spectrum..and seldom have block heaters already installed in them.... but the same ones which fit the turbo 617's fits... really only needed in really cold weather.... even then, with good glow plugs and battery charged and the glow timed at 45 seconds... these cars start...if they are going to start..

caramel240d · #8 01-14-2011, 10:54 PM

79Mercy, thanks for the part ID. $50 from PeachParts, damn... I'll try to seal it somehow. As for the readings, I didn't know which pins were to what since there are 6, so I tested all of them. I see four glow plugs, but in between them there are two large things that I would have taken for glow plugs also, that seem to be powered by the GPR, as well. Maybe the previous owner installed extra plugs?

I'm having a difficult time getting to all the glowplugs with my socket wrench, but I'll be able to test one or two tomorrow.

leathermang, that's good to know. The guy I bought it from also converted it to the new type of freon or whatever-- R134 or something? Yea we have the base models, sounds just like yours except auto.

leathermang · #9 01-14-2011, 10:58 PM

You have not posted where you live...
If they put in 134a and everything was done correctly... and you do not live in the deep hot humid south you should be just fine.
Was the guy you got it from a member of this forum ?

caramel240d · #10 01-15-2011, 03:17 PM

leather, I posted my location earlier in the thread-- Melbourne, Florida. I didn't get it from someone off PP.

I pulled the plugs and got their resistance readings:

1- 0 Ω
2- 13 kΩ
3- 6 Ω
4- 0.27 kΩ

Obviously one is dead, one's OK, and the others are just strange. I'll get them replaced ASAP, and if that doesn't solve the problem, I'll do a valve adjustment.

To test the IP, I'd like to loosen the injector nuts-- what tool can I use for this? I guess I have to remove the hard fuel lines first? Can I twist that top nut that seems to be connected to the hard fuel line to test if it's pumping fuel?

josha37 · #11 01-15-2011, 03:26 PM

glow plugs for these are like ten bucks at napa, if you suspect failure.. pull and replace them all and be done with it.

caramel240d · #12 01-18-2011, 11:50 AM

It was the glow plugs! Started right up

...feels good hahah.

Thanks everyone!!

PS, even my new glow plugs didn't feel warm to the touch when I warmed them for a while, so I wouldn't say that's a foolproof test.

charmalu · #13 01-18-2011, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caramel240d

leather, I posted my location earlier in the thread-- Melbourne, Florida. I didn't get it from someone off PP.

I pulled the plugs and got their resistance readings:

1- 0 Ω
2- 13 kΩ
3- 6 Ω
4- 0.27 kΩ

Obviously one is dead, one's OK, and the others are just strange. I'll get them replaced ASAP, and if that doesn't solve the problem, I'll do a valve adjustment.

To test the IP, I'd like to loosen the injector nuts-- what tool can I use for this? I guess I have to remove the hard fuel lines first? Can I twist that top nut that seems to be connected to the hard fuel line to test if it's pumping fuel?

Great you got her going, see it was something simple.

after you have this 240 for a while, you will realize how simple it really is to work on and keep going. not very powerful or speedy at 67hp, but really don`t need 300hp on these crowded freeways going 40 - 50mph.

Our 80 240, will start as soon as the GP light goes out. not as cold in Calif (as some places back east I know), and probably similar temps as Florida temps.
I do have the GP light blink on and off while Iam driving, so need to dig into that problem.

The water valve that is leaking on your firwall, I don`t think it can be taken apart and fixed. I was looking at mine, it has the metal body and plastic arms. not sure you can take it apart w/o breaking the old plastic. might be a lock ring on the ends and a "O" ring inside. but if you break it, still need the $50 for the new one.

I have one question. where did you find the OHM button on your Key Board?

Charlie

josha37 · #14 01-18-2011, 12:49 PM

Ω AHAHAHAHAHA

caramel240d · #15 01-18-2011, 06:19 PM

Thanks charmalu! I'm looking forward to learning more and more and making that realization. It's starting right when the GP light goes out now, too!

Thanks for the water valve tip. Maybe I could just jerry rig something to contain the leak until I can replace the part.

The ohm key isn't on my keyboard haha. If you have windows, it's probably in your Character Map (you can access special characters using alt + number pad #s-- try it with a random number). I just googled it + copy and paste.